Rivian Adopting Tesla NACS Charging Standard Too!

[p52Ranch]

The $7.5B requires 97% uptime and they must report data, so a company like EA (if EA were eligible, which they are not), wouldn't get a f'in dime.

I was referring to the federal incentives prior to the IRA. I agree that the IRA includes the much needed uptime requirements.

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[Zprime29]

Ford wants us to think we have to use Ford Pass to access the SCs, they did the same thing with EA Pass+.

We don't know all the details yet, it's possible that we will activate SC's using the FP app similar to the way magic docks work. It's possible that we will have need to toggle it on as we do now for BlueOval network access. I think it reasonable that Ford set's up a "free" tier for PnC access and an optional subscription to get discounted prices. We don't know the details on this yet but I will say that if the deal boils down to a required subscription to BlueOval...there will likely be some fierce backlash.

V3 is probably because of Plug and Charge but Plug and Charge is not a Ford proprietary feature. Some software changes can probably overcome the V3 restrictions allowing cars without Plug and Charge to SC and EVs with Plug and Charge to use other than V3 SCs.

Do V2 SC's not use PnC? It's obviously not proprietary, I'm not sure why you felt the need to make that statement. There are already SW features that allow non PnC, it's called the Magic Dock (swipe to activate). Tesla only lets you activate SC's with the Magic Dock in that fashion. So yes, while swipe to activate is an option for Tesla to open up to everyone, it also provides evidence that simply having an adapter does not guarantee access. No PnC? No access (without swipe).

If it's just a SW thing, why not say all SC's? Why say just the V3? It doesn't make sense. If there's a plan to enable all, why not just say that?

I don’t think that V3 restriction is going to last very long at all. When non-Tesla EVs start trying to SC there are going to be many, many people trying SC at non-V3 SCs and the complaints about Supercharging will go through the roof. Tesla will either have to give access to non-V3 SCs or watch their satisfaction ratings plummet.

I think you are wrong here. Sites like PlugShare and ABRP not stupid, they will filter chargers based on the vehicle we select to show where we can charge. In vehicle map routing, which is what we want to use to precondition the battery, will only allow selecting the appropriate locations. The only time someone would try to use a non V3 is if they didn't plan ahead, didn't use the in vehicle routing, and just happen to see a SC and think, "I'll charge there." I think those instances will be minimal and not nearly enough to force Tesla to do anything they don't want to.

This also brings up a lot of questions about all the other service providers that will be installing NACS plugs. Will the NACS to CCS adapters work with all these non-Tesla chargers? Will only Plug and Charge EVs be able to charge using the adapter?

Personally I think it’s going to be a mess and I’m a long way from considering NACS adoption progress.

The adapter will be a mechanical device, the brains of the operation lie within the operator's SW. There will be ZERO reliance on PnC and 100% reliance on whatever authentication and activation procedure is required by the provider.

CharIn is creating a task force to put NACS on the same pedestal as it places CCS. The writing is on the wall. It will likely take a long time before CCS completely dies off, but at this point the odds are in favor for NACS. CCS1 had their chance and they blew it.

 

[RickLightning]

I can state definitively that there is no way any adapter is going to require Plug and Charge. Why?

- GM, Rivian, ...
- Plug and Charge fails too often, and you need the app to activate.

I do believe that we'll be ABLE to use P&C with Tesla chargers.

 

[Adventureboy]

Ford wants us to think we have to use Ford Pass to access the SCs, they did the same thing with EA Pass+. V3 is probably because of Plug and Charge but Plug and Charge is not a Ford proprietary feature. Some software changes can probably overcome the V3 restrictions allowing cars without Plug and Charge to SC and EVs with Plug and Charge to use other than V3 SCs.

I don’t think that V3 restriction is going to last very long at all. When non-Tesla EVs start trying to SC there are going to be many, many people trying SC at non-V3 SCs and the complaints about Supercharging will go through the roof. Tesla will either have to give access to non-V3 SCs or watch their satisfaction ratings plummet.

This also brings up a lot of questions about all the other service providers that will be installing NACS plugs. Will the NACS to CCS adapters work with all these non-Tesla chargers? Will only Plug and Charge EVs be able to charge using the adapter?

Personally I think it’s going to be a mess and I’m a long way from considering NACS adoption progress.

I'm a bit more optimistic. I believe the industry will move forward, standards will be created and barriers will be removed. NACS has momentum now with Ford/Rivian/GM getting on board. I expect that Ford Pass Plug and Charge will be a convenience on V3 initially, not a requirement going forward. It would make no sense for Tesla to limit NACs that way at either their V3 SCs or earlier Vs. We are at the inflection point and most of the issues will be resolved in the next year or so. Competition in the SC world will drive reliability and pricing. Overpriced or unreliable/unusable SCs will naturally fade away since no one will use them. Issues like those you describe above will be bumps in the road and most will be resolved quickly. My wife has owned her Mach-E for a year now, and I'm 6 months with the Lightning and I am amazed at the improvement in just the past year. Looking forward to fast progressive change with the Ford/Rivian/GM (and soon, others) announcement.

 

[sotek2345]

I'm a bit more optimistic. I believe the industry will move forward, standards will be created and barriers will be removed. NACS has momentum now with Ford/Rivian/GM getting on board. I expect that Ford Pass Plug and Charge will be a convenience on V3 initially, not a requirement going forward. It would make no sense for Tesla to limit NACs that way at either their V3 SCs or earlier Vs. We are at the inflection point and most of the issues will be resolved in the next year or so. Competition in the SC world will drive reliability and pricing. Overpriced or unreliable/unusable SCs will naturally fade away since no one will use them. Issues like those you describe above will be bumps in the road and most will be resolved quickly. My wife has owned her Mach-E for a year now, and I'm 6 months with the Lightning and I am amazed at the improvement in just the past year. Looking forward to fast progressive change with the Ford/Rivian/GM (and soon, others) announcement.

I am on the opposite end of my experiences. While I have hope for the future, I have watched the reliability of charging drop off on the routes I drive most often (NY and PA). Had no issues when we first got our Mach-e ~18 months ago, but no I end up having to call EA or EVgo (or both!) on just about every trip.

 

[Adventureboy]

I am on the opposite end of my experiences. While I have hope for the future, I have watched the reliability of charging drop off on the routes I drive most often (NY and PA). Had no issues when we first got our Mach-e ~18 months ago, but no I end up having to call EA or EVgo (or both!) on just about every trip.

Yes, I hear you. I came on a bit later than you so probably my experience at first is similar to the challenges you are seeing and I've seen improvement in Ontario over the year. It was pretty bad a year ago with offline chargers and connection problems. I think the number of CCS vehicles hitting the market in the last year has tested the infrastructure and the weak links have been showing up. NACS has had 10 years to iron out bugs that CCS is just seeing now. Given the momentum, I believe it will improve tremendously in the next year.

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