The Competition: 2024 Silverado EV Reviews Are Here

[Txxthie]

I like the 500 lb weight savings from the Ford's all-aluminum body.

The Silverado currently being tested is over 2000 pounds heaver than the ER Lightning.

Rather the extra weight to be batteries!

...But 2000 extra pounds for 100 extra miles of range in not a great deal!

These 200 kWh+ packs don’t make sense to me due to added weight, cost, charging times, and complexity. How will they fare in accidents, insurance claims, tire usage, and thermal runaway events. I really think they’re going to end up being EV dinosaurs, once denser battery technology becomes available. The Silverado WT ER battery is about 4X larger than my TM3 RWD LFP (60kWh) which gets 270 miles of range. I would personally buy a diesel or PHEV to tow long distances.

IMHO: The EV Truck sweet spot is a SR Lightning with LFP, a heat pump, DCFC preconditioning, NACS, and some better aerodynamics. Hopefully Ford can target 275 miles of range with those changes. You can use 100% of the range that you pay for, it’s a safer battery, it can be reasonably priced, and will have less battery degradation. It seems perfect for a work truck.

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[sotek2345]

These 200kW+ battery EVs don’t make sense to me due to added weight, cost, charging times, and complexity. How will they fare in accidents, insurance claims, tire usage, and thermal runaway events. I really think they’re going to end up being EV dinosaurs, once denser battery technology becomes available. The Silverado WT ER battery is about 4X larger than my TM3 RWD LFP (60kW) which gets 270 miles of range. I would personally buy a diesel or PHEV to tow long distances.

IMHO: The EV Truck sweet spot is a SR Lightning with LFP, a heat pump, DCFC preconditioning, NACS, and some better aerodynamics. Hopefully Ford can target 275 miles of range with those changes. You can use 100% of the range that you pay for, it’s a safer battery, it can be reasonably priced, and will have less battery degradation. It seems perfect for a work truck.

Unless you are putting in more battery, you get less range with LFP vs. NC, not more, esp. in cold climates.

 

[Amps]

These 200kW+ battery EVs don’t make sense to me due to added weight, cost, charging times, and complexity.

It's similar to the skyscraper elevator dilemma. The higher you go, the more space that needs to be dedicated to elevators. Eventually, you get a building dedicated to elevators. The EV version is that your truck soon becomes a truck dedicated to hauling a big battery around.

It's not the range, it's the chargers.

 

[Fryballin]

Are you talking the portable generators you wheel around on a worksite? A 10,000 watt gas generator with a 240 plug is around $1000. Anybody who tries to justify a $60,000+ new EV truck just to save the cost of a generator is doing mental gymnastics. It’s definitely a convenient feature to have if you are shopping for a worksite truck anyways, and can add the feature to the truck order.

The more compelling use is for the home backup like you mentioned. If I wanted to add a battery backup to my solar to run everything overnight, I’d probably need about $40,000-60,000 worth of Enphase IQ/Powerwall batteries. The Lightning has the capacity of 10 or 13 batteries, so it could stand in for $100,000+ worth of home backup batteries. I’m definitely going to look at the Enphase bidirectional EV charger when it comes out in order to integrate it with my existing Enphase solar array.

I believe the first drive reviews are indicating that the Chevy Silverado will not do whole home back up like the lightning. Chevy is instead selling an adapter for the J1772 plug that provides additional outlets for the portable generator option. So FORD definitely has an advantage on that front and I have the Home integration system installed with solar and have been without power twice already this year. Its crazy to me that more automakers are not making these MASSIVE batteries useable for back up power when not being drove.

 

[jdmackes]

It's not the range, it's the chargers.

And the time spent charging. If the truck would charge up within 15 minutes or so, I think there would be less concern about range. It's nice that the Silverado has 800 volt architecture and can charge faster than the lightning, but how much faster can it really charge? The one video I saw only showed it charging at about 170 kw/h which is what the er lightning can do now anyway.

 

[sotek2345]

And the time spent charging. If the truck would charge up within 15 minutes or so, I think there would be less concern about range. It's nice that the Silverado has 800 volt architecture and can charge faster than the lightning, but how much faster can it really charge? The one video I saw only showed it charging at about 170 kw/h which is what the er lightning can do now anyway.

In the real world it will be slower than the Lightning, that bigger battery will take awhile to juice up and needs a 350kW charger to take advantage of that. From the speed folks were seeing, I think you will be looking at ~45 minute charges at 350kW units, and over an hour on 150kW units.

Most of my Lightning stops are in the 20-30 minute range, only going to 45 mins if I get there really now and need over 80% to make the next stop.

 

[jdmackes]

In the real world it will be slower than the Lightning, that bigger battery will take awhile to juice up and needs a 350kW charger to take advantage of that. From the speed folks were seeing, I think you will be looking at ~45 minute charges at 350kW units, and over an hour on 150kW units.

Most of my Lightning stops are in the 20-30 minute range, only going to 45 mins if I get there really now and need over 80% to make the next stop.

Yeah, I was interested when I saw that it could take advantage fo the 350kw chargers, but it seems like it isn't really charging as fast as I was expecting it to. Dunno if that is from the poor charging curve or what, but if it doesn't charge faster than the lightning, I don't really see the point.

 

[sotek2345]

Yeah, I was interested when I saw that it could take advantage fo the 350kw chargers, but it seems like it isn't really charging as fast as I was expecting it to. Dunno if that is from the poor charging curve or what, but if it doesn't charge faster than the lightning, I don't really see the point.

It is definitely faster - one of the articles I read showed low 200kWs around 60% SoC. That is faster than the Lightning can go, but you also have a much bigger battery, so even though it is more kW/minute, it is about the same or worse %/minute.

My lighting (ER) tends to settle in around 140kW after an initial burst, given our 131kWhr battery that is ~1.8%/min.

If the Silverado settles in around 200kW with a 212kWhr battery, that is ~1.6%/min.

Given the rough math and real world variation that is about the same. It remains to be seen if the Silverado has an initial burst like the Lightning and what the over 80% curve looks like.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

As a 2023 F-150 Lightning Pro SR owner, I am NOT having much envy. In my use case, the extra range (2X?) isn't critical, and I'm not hauling around 2500 lbs of useless battery weight all the time. The Silverado EV has a smaller frunk (with manual open/close), a dull interior (and that's compared to a Pro), no CarPlay, no 110v outlets in the cab, crappy display screens, uneven rear floor (Pro is dead flat), over-inflated tires, only in white (?), not really available now, not compatible with accessories for legacy trucks (I have multiple aftermarket add-ons that are just standard F-150 accessories), slower acceleration, less useful payload, and a significantly higher price. I'll be keeping my Lightning Pro.

 

[Pioneer74]

I like competition because it makes everything better. But I just don't see the case for incredibly large batteries, especially with Tesla opening up their Superchargers. The cost and efficiency, IMO, doesn't justify it. The only argument I could see is towing, but you'd have to tow an awful lot, and something extremely heavy and shaped like a brick, to justify it. Not an average use case.

I moved my daughter across the state of Michigan last week. From Toledo to Grand Rapids I didn't need to charge. The only reason I stopped at EA in Lansing is because I haven't set up a 220V outlet at her place yet.

 

[vandy1981]

I've watched a bunch of YT reviews and a few interesting/odd points came up.

• Charging held to 170 kW even at a relatively high state of charge. Based on a quick charging session, it looks like it has the same huge battery as the Hummer truck.
• The Frunk is not powered open but has a soft-close feature
• There are weird removable plastic clips in the bed that cover the access to the spare tire. They look like they would get broken and lost with normal use of the bed
• The steering wheel is power adjustable which is weird in an otherwise very basic interior
• There is no start button and you just hit the brake and shift into gear to start the truck, similar to Tesla
• The reviews imply that the bed inverters only work when the truck is 'Off.' That seems weird, unless the reviewers are getting the V2L adapter confused with power supplied to the bed outlets

 

[djwildstar]

It's nice that the Silverado has 800 volt architecture and can charge faster than the lightning, but how much faster can it really charge?

Most informed sources suggest that the Silverado 4WT battery pack is the same one as the Hummer EV: a 800V, 212kWh pack. There's not a lot of real-world charging data out there for that pack, but what I could find suggests that it charges from 15% to 80% in about 45 minutes. Which is awfully close to the actual 15% to 80% charging time for an ER Lightning.

Now, that same ~45 minute charging stop gets you roughly 100 miles of extra range than the Lightning, you can get more driving and less charging. Alternatively, if the Silverado stopped to charge as often as an ER Lightning would, the charging sessions would be about 31 minutes instead of the Lightnings 41 minutes, saving about 10 minutes per stop.

The big difference will be for shorter road trips, in roughly the 300 to 700 mile range, where the available fast chargers are spaced so that the Silverado can make the trip with one less DC fast charge than the ER Lightning. Over longer distances, or with non-optimal charger placement, saving 10 minutes of charging every 2-3 hours of driving is nice but not huge.

 

[Txxthie]

Unless you are putting in more battery, you get less range with LFP vs. NC, not more, esp. in cold climates.

NCM battery and LFP battery are not absolutely good or bad, but each has its own merits.
I own both a LFP and a NCM battery EV. Cold weather effects range on both vehicles. Tesla has optimized the LFP battery to perform well in colder environments. The addition of a heat pump + DCFC preconditioning makes it better suited for cold weather than my NCM Lightning.

The advantages of the NCM battery lie in two aspects: Energy storage density and low-temperature resistance.

The LFP battery is less energy dense and Ford will maintain range by adding more cells to the SR. Ford will also add a heat pump, DCFC preconditioning and enhanced blending braking in colder weather.

 

[Txxthie]

It's similar to the skyscraper elevator dilemma. The higher you go, the more space that needs to be dedicated to elevators. Eventually, you get a building dedicated to elevators. The EV version is that your truck soon becomes a truck dedicated to hauling a big battery around.

It's not the range, it's the chargers.

Wow , that is the best explanation I have read to date. You are also spot on about chargers!

Farley and Musk agreed upon availability of charging being the bottle neck and not the range (battery size).

 

[Txxthie]

And the time spent charging. If the truck would charge up within 15 minutes or so, I think there would be less concern about range. It's nice that the Silverado has 800 volt architecture and can charge faster than the lightning, but how much faster can it really charge? The one video I saw only showed it charging at about 170 kw/h which is what the er lightning can do now anyway.

Having owned a 800V charging EV (Ioniq 5) it’s only fast if you arrive with a low SOC, have a functioning 350kW charger, charge only to 80%, and have ideal temps. It will thermal throttle above 80% using a 350kW. Charging over 80% SOC 800V architecture seems to have no advantage. I much prefer a flat steady charging curve that goes deeper into the pack.

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