Utah to require GPS tracking for EVs...

[Rockyl32]

Idaho has an EV tax on registration to recoup the money lost from gas taxes. This is one tax I do not take issue with. I know (for the most part) where this money is going and I want good roads to drive on. I will not put a GPS tracker or any other device in my vehicle so the government can check on where or how far I have driven.
That being said if you are using the Ford app, Ford has that information………

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[astricklin]

My biggest issue with states charging a flat fee is that's it's usually multiple times what even a pickup driver pays in gas taxes. It needs to be based on miles driven

 

[RickLightning]

I'm against taxes for EVs but if it gets through why can't they just get an odometer reading (you fill it in on the registration renewal form) every year and tax you by mileage? Why do they need moment to moment position tracking information?

It seems like our government officials watch sci-fi like Black Mirror and wonder about how they can make the dystopian sci-fi scenarios real.

People lie.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Our tax systems have relied on honest voluntary compliance, yet verification still happens.

The same could occur with road taxes, standardize it for every class of vehicle, eliminate the fuel excise taxes completely in lieu of a mileage levy.

BTW, all the heavy weight truckers out there know what a form 2290 is, due 8/31, get her done or you can't renew your registrations

 

[Sealevel]

Doesn’t state make money off of Electricity sales through taxes and fees? i am using electricity that I didn’t use before (when I was driving ICE). Isn’t this double dipping?

I have solar cells that supplies some of the power I use for charging. I am not in favor of the GPS or even toll road tracking. I am okay paying a yearly fee equal to what an average Ice vehicle pays - but what mpg would be fair.

 

[Maxx]

I have solar cells that supplies some of the power I use for charging. I am not in favor of the GPS or even toll road tracking. I am okay paying a yearly fee equal to what an average Ice vehicle pays - but what mpg would be fair.

I agree that people using the roads should pay for them. And I kinda like the mileage model but not by GPS. The reason I like mileage model is that it is fair and it is source proof. If hydrogen or warp drive take off tomorrow, it does not need adjustment. How you control reporting or cheating is a different matter.

Fed is already giving states money for transportation. They could stop subsidizing oil and add some more to that funding. That may have more of an impact in electrifying transportation.

 

[lightspeed]

Our tax systems have relied on honest voluntary compliance, yet verification still happens.

The same could occur with road taxes, standardize it for every class of vehicle, eliminate the fuel excise taxes completely in lieu of a mileage levy.

BTW, all the heavy weight truckers out there know what a form 2290 is, due in 5 days 8/31, get her done or you can't renew your registrations

Exactly. You could self report mileage and the gov could check it against occasional auto inspections or during sales/transfers. It's not rocket science.

 

[data003]

Just tax the commercial trucks (semis) by the mile. They are the ones who actually cause damage to the roads. Plus since it’s commercial I’d expect less objections to GPS trackers.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Just tax the commercial trucks (semis) by the mile. They are the ones who actually cause damage to the roads. Plus since it’s commercial I’d expect less objections to GPS trackers.

Passenger vehicles of all sorts cause wear on the roads and supporting structures everyday, especially caused by traffic accidents damaging the surface, guard rails, bridges, etc.

My truck driving friends would vehemently disagree with you, they severely resent ELD's and the attached telematics.

 

[data003]

Passenger vehicles of all sorts cause wear on the roads and supporting structures everyday, especially caused by traffic accidents damaging the surface, guard rails, bridges, etc.

My truck driving friends would vehemently disagree with you, they severely resent ELD's and the attached telematics.

https://www.insidescience.org/news/how-much-damage-do-heavy-trucks-do-our-roads

This has been known since the 50s, it’s nothing new. There’s just a lack of political will to actually tax vehicles proportionally to the damage they cause.

With respect to your trucking friends… I expect all my keystrokes on my work computer to be recorded. Why would they expect anything different on company time and with company equipment? I’d be shocked if insurance companies and regulations didn’t mandate it anyway.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This has been known since the 50s, it’s nothing new. There’s just a lack of political will to actually tax vehicles proportionally to the damage they cause.

Have you seen a form 2290?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2290.pdf

 

[Jim Lewis]

My biggest issue with states charging a flat fee is that's it's usually multiple times what even a pickup driver pays in gas taxes. It needs to be based on miles driven

I agree with you entirely. Starting this year in Texas, EV drivers will pay a $200 per year registration fee as a stand-in for ICE fuel taxes. However, in Texas, the average ICE vehicle driver only pays ~$80 per year in fuel taxes.

Had a great encounter today in a grocery store parking lot with an old gentleman who was amazed by me loading groceries into my frunk. He was driving a beaten-up RAM 2500 truck with an American flag flying behind one rear window and a Texas flag behind the other. And a hand-lettered placard in the rear window that said something like "101st Airborne Helicopter Brigade." I thought, "Whoa, he's going to be much further to the right than me..." Somewhere in our conversation, I lamented the Texas "EV tax" I noted above. He generously replied, "Don't tell me. I'm a cross-country trucker. I pay $17,000 per year in fuel taxes. The real trouble is they collect all that money, spend it on something else, and don't maintain the infrastructure adequately." I gave him a BIG thumbs-up for that.

After the fact, I had a little trouble with his $17,000 per year in fuel taxes. The average diesel fuel tax is $.24/gal. To pay that tax, he'd have to buy ~71,000 gal of diesel fuel a year. If he worked 365 days a year, he'd use about 194 gal/per day. The average 18-wheeler gets about 6 mpg with diesel fuel. So he'd be driving about 1,200 miles per day. He'd have to drive 18 hours per day to average 65 mph and cover that 1,200 miles per day! So maybe his average fuel tax paid per gallon is higher, or his trucks get terrible mileage, or being a Texan, he exaggerated a bit!

So, yes, they need to tax everyone fairly for miles driven and put the money they collect to good use rather than kicking the can down the road as our legislatures do on so many infrastructure items. An article or two I've read said that the problem is that infrastructure spending and maintenance is far less visible to the electorate than other pork barrel projects that generate more hoopla for a politician's main concern - getting re-elected again in the short term.

 

[TaxmanHog]

After the fact, I had a little trouble with his $17,000 per year in fuel taxes.

In addition to the PUMP excise tax they pay for TAX STAMPS, look at cross country riggs, they have a placard on the drivers or passenger side of the cab to affix these TAX STAMPS, they are pricey in some states

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/

Old chart, but you get the point, that single truck owner operators, nevermind fleet operators have substantial burdens most of you folks DO NOT appreciate.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hwytaxes/2001/pt11b.htm

 

[Amps]

Virginia’s Mileage Choice program uses mileage reporting directly from the truck. No OBD dongle, no GPS, no location data, so it collects fees for all miles driven. I wonder if Utah’s mandatory GPS stops taxing when the vehicle leaves Utah?

 

[hturnerfamily]

the states will continue to grapple with this concern, and we will continue to argue for them to stay out of it... but we all know it's coming. Agree, too, that we probably all are willing to pay our share for keeping the roads up... we would be sorely sad if they were not.

States, like Georgia, have 'calculated' a 'comparison' between what the 'average' miles per year of the average vehicle is driven, multiplied by the 'average' MPG, multiplied by the average GALLONS needed to drive those miles. This is then averaged into a 'Road Tax Fee' that is leveraged against every EV registered in the state. Currently, for Georgia, that additional fee is $210.87.
Thats: $17.58 per month...
$ .59 per day...
or maybe $ .02 cents PER MILE for the average 12,000 mile vehicle(according to insurance statistics)

Unfortunately, the fee is also NON-REFUNDABLE if you sell the vehicle mid-year, or don't actually DRIVE your vehicle anywhere Close to those 'miles'... those two parts don't seem acceptable.


NOW, though, Georgia has proposed a new 2025 'ELECTRICITY TAX' in ADDITION to this fee:
[excerpts from a state publication]

Under the legislation, public charging stations would have to track their kilowatt-hour usage and would be required to collect a tax per every 11 kWh... an excise tax is on EVs at charging stations of 26 cents per 11 kilowatt-hours (kWh). Eleven kWh is the amount legislators determined is the equivalent of one gallon of gasoline.per one legislator:

"This is for the person that's out driving around, stops at a restaurant, wants to plug in while they eat. That's when we're going to get them or somebody traveling through the State of Georgia with an EV from wherever through our state, we'll get them then."

I am NOT a fan of this, unless Georgia can EXCLUDE my vehicle, a vehicle already registered in the State Of Georgia and already paying it's own EV fee.

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