Installing a heat pump

[Kev12345]

Very unlikely. And I don't think that the heat pump is going to gain any notable range.

winter range is an issue. there will be a notable difference with the heat pump.

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[vsansal]

Heat pump is useful when certain conditions are met. For example if you drive long distance and produce additional heat on the battery by doing so, you can use the excessive heat in the cabin just like an ICE vehicle. You can also fast charge and utilize the excessive heat produced by fast charging in the battery to do the same thing. Or you can pre-condition the vehicle each morning before you leave and use the heated battery with the heat pump. For all other times you need to use the resistive heater and there is no noticeable difference. That's what I experience with my model Y in short distance travel without pre-condition. Cold soaked vehicle and battery doesn't utilize the heat pump. My losses in my 2022 pro and model y seems to be similar in city driving without these conditions met.

 

[Shawnson]

What is the benefit that Ford is hoping to achieve by adding the heat pump to the 2024’s if it’s not notable range improvement?

Marketing, cross shopping comparisons and a benefit with economies of scale. Not enough of a benefit as a one
-off. I notice in real world conditions better cold weather performance out of my lightning than my 3 with HP. Larger battery and worse efficiency of the truck overall means less delta as a percentage on resistive heater vs HP. Higher efficiency vehicles receive a better payoff on the HP than lower efficiency trucks.

 

[Ventorum94]

What is the benefit that Ford is hoping to achieve by adding the heat pump to the 2024’s if it’s not notable range improvement?

The new vapor-injection heat pumps (including the ‘24 Lightning) are effective even at sub-freezing temps, and should reduce the energy consumed for heating by about 30%. So, if energy used in heating the cabin is say, 30% of total energy consumed by everything while driving, then the heat pump might be expected to reduce total energy consumption by about 9% (30% x 30% = 9% saved). That would mean 9% less consumption, 9% more range (or 30% less range loss) than when using resistive heating. Not a huge difference, but significant.

 

[Txxthie]

Heat pump is useful when certain conditions are met.

It is useful in most conditions. Extreme temps are not the norm for the majority of the country. Why would manufacturers use heat pumps in BEVs if it isn’t beneficial?

This WeberAuto video is a must watch, check out the video comments. I am sure many skeptics here will agree with his conclusions after watching the video.

The Tesla heat pump video by WeberAuto at Weber State University is highly technical and meant for teaching purposes. It is not the Disney Channel and for entertainment.
Conclusion:
Heat pumps work and resistance heaters are primitive and used by manufacturers with 1st generation thermal systems or as a cost cutting option.

 

[sotek2345]

If it’s anything like other manufacturers, I would definitely expect it to make a difference in cold weather. We traded a 2018 Tesla with resistive heater for a 2022 with a heat pump and the winter range loss went from 30-40% to 10-20% range loss in the winter. I’m sure Ford had to justify the extra cost of a heat pump by being able to provide a demonstrable improvement for cold weather customers.

Does Florida even really get a winter?

 

[Ventorum94]

Anyone knows if ford will be able to retrofit 2022 and 2023 models with heat pump to gain some extra range ?

My 2023 ER Lariat gives me about 240 miles and in these hills with weather I can only expect it to get worse. I love the truck but range is a bit of an issue

I’m always curious (as an SR truck owner) about why 240mi range seems so only marginally adequate. Do you drive more than 240mi in a normal day? (that would be 62k miles/yr, driving the truck only on weekdays!) Perhaps some do, but most of us drive a fraction of that. Plugging in every night (in a garage, especially in cold climates) is part of the answer, so that you always start your day with a full charge (or 80% or 90% or whatever your preferred charge limit) and a warm battery pack.

 

[Ventorum94]

Does Florida even really get a winter?

Heck yes, it gets so cold we have to wear jackets! (in the morning and evening, anyway)

 

[vsansal]

It is useful in most conditions. Extreme temps are not the norm for the majority of the country. Why would manufacturers use heat pumps in BEVs if it isn’t beneficial?

I would like to know outside the conditions I listed what are the other conditions you are referring to. I am agreeing it is beneficial when the conditions are met. It depends on your use case scenario. When you indicate extreme temps are not the norm for the majority of the country, you are actually saying heat pump is not needed for the majority of the country since heat pumps make the difference when you actually live in those areas. A heat pump is not going to make a noticeable difference for example for someone that lives in Florida. I live in the DC area, I owned a model 3 without a HP for 2 years and then upgraded to a Model Y 2,5 years ago with a HP (I still own this vehicle) and now I have been driving a 22 Pro for about a year and I went through the last DC winter with this vehicle. From my personal experience, if I drive short distances without pre-condition I don't see a noticeable difference in losses between my model 3, model y and lightning in winter time driving. The most noticeable difference I saw was the winter time long distance travel between my model 3 and my model Y. HP did its job and kept the cabin toasty without using resistive heating.

 

[Danface]

I had to scape the inside of the windows during the winter in my 75 VW Bus. The fix was gas fired heater that that dual features of buring and asphyxiating you at the same time!

 

[tnugentfl]

It is not just the pure efficiency of the heat pump itself but in the implementation. If they can replicate the Tesla design with the Octovalve that can operate in 15 different configurations to help thermally regulate the battery, motors/inverters, and the cabin you can definitely expect more useable range in cold weather. Everyone references extreme use cases of below zero conditions which may never improve but for many use cases a properly configured heat pump is a much better way to go.

 

[Adventureboy]

I would give it a 99.99999% of nope!

My full expectation is no as well. When I want the heat pump, I'll order my T3 ;-)

 

[vagabond7846]

...For example if you drive long distance and produce additional heat on the battery by doing so, you can use the excessive heat in the cabin just like an ICE vehicle.

Does the battery pack actually produce excess heat in long distance highway driving? I would think not, considering that when you are steady-state on the highway you are on low utilization and wont pull much current. At least from my own observations, I have done long distance highway driving, with 'heat' turned OFF, and absolutely no excess heat comes from those vents.

While i agree a heat pump would make a negligible difference for short distance driving, on longer distances the impact of an efficiency improvement becomes more noticeable. Surely that has to be some data from Tesla users on this

 

[RickLightning]

Does the battery pack actually produce excess heat in long distance highway driving? I would think not, considering that when you are steady-state on the highway you are on low utilization and wont pull much current. At least from my own observations, I have done long distance highway driving, with 'heat' turned OFF, and absolutely no excess heat comes from those vents.

While i agree a heat pump would make a negligible difference for short distance driving, on longer distances the impact of an efficiency improvement becomes more noticeable. Surely that has to be some data from Tesla users on this

This.

Haven't monitored the truck, but did the Mach-E. As you depart your home, with a preconditioned battery at 59 degrees, battery pack drops temp as you drive.

 

[vsansal]

Does the battery pack actually produce excess heat in long distance highway driving? I would think not, considering that when you are steady-state on the highway you are on low utilization and wont pull much current. At least from my own observations, I have done long distance highway driving, with 'heat' turned OFF, and absolutely no excess heat comes from those vents.

While i agree a heat pump would make a negligible difference for short distance driving, on longer distances the impact of an efficiency improvement becomes more noticeable. Surely that has to be some data from Tesla users on this

The batteries will heat up with constant energy draw from them even though it is steady. For example winter time long distance driving with my model 3, it would rarely pre-condition the battery before I did supercharging since it did have enough heat already to supercharge.

When you turn off heat, you are never going to get heat from vents on an EV, doesn't matter if its resistive or HP. When you turn on heat with a warm battery pack, if you have an HP, it would use that heat to blow hot air to the cabin instead of using resistive heat. Of course it needs to balance it with the battery since if the battery goes too cold by pumping all the heat to the cabin, then you need to heat the battery and use the same or more amount of energy to condition the battery as well.

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