Installing a heat pump

[Roy2001]

The only solution is to use heated seat for coldest days.

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[Maquis]

The new vapor-injection heat pumps (including the ‘24 Lightning) are effective even at sub-freezing temps, and should reduce the energy consumed for heating by about 30%. So, if energy used in heating the cabin is say, 30% of total energy consumed by everything while driving, then the heat pump might be expected to reduce total energy consumption by about 9% (30% x 30% = 9% saved). That would mean 9% less consumption, 9% more range (or 30% less range loss) than when using resistive heating. Not a huge difference, but significant.

There’s no way heating uses 30% of the energy. If the 5 KW heater runs 100% of the time (it’s likely much less, depending on conditions) that consumes 5 kWh in an hour. If you drive 50 miles in that hour at 2 MPK, you’ve used 25 kWh to move the truck. Total usage of 30 kWh. That’s 17% in a worst-case scenario. In reality, it’s probably half that.

 

[RickLightning]

There’s no way heating uses 30% of the energy. If the 5 KW heater runs 100% of the time (it’s likely much less, depending on conditions) that consumes 5 kWh in an hour. If you drive 50 miles in that hour at 2 MPK, you’ve used 25 kWh to move the truck. Total usage of 30 kWh. That’s 17% in a worst-case scenario. In reality, it’s probably half that.

Which is why I say that the heat pump will not provide any notable range improvement. Notable as in "I have to have one of those put in my truck". Or "Ford now claims XX range in winter".

 

[Grumpy2]

Are you sure it is a 5kw heater? I see folks assumed that was the size only because it may be the same as the MME. The typical resistive heater shown on the WeberAuto videos is a 7.5kw unit. I can't find any listing in the info from Ford.

 

[Maquis]

Are you sure it is a 5kw heater? I see folks assumed that was the size only because it may be the same as the MME. The typical resistive heater shown on the WeberAuto videos is a 7.5kw unit. I can't find any listing in the info from Ford.

You’re correct, I had 5 KW on my brain from my Mach-E. I honestly don’t know what’s in the Lightning, but 7.5 KW wouldn’t be unrealistic. But the size of the heater doesn’t change the amount of heat required to keep the cabin warm. A larger heater would run less.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

If it’s anything like other manufacturers, I would definitely expect it to make a difference in cold weather. We traded a 2018 Tesla with resistive heater for a 2022 with a heat pump and the winter range loss went from 30-40% to 10-20% range loss in the winter. I’m sure Ford had to justify the extra cost of a heat pump by being able to provide a demonstrable improvement for cold weather customers.

Trying to be fair here or rather offer clarity. Some of that is due to other improvements made as well, especially in the battery pack.

Even with HVAC off, seat heaters and heated wheel off in my 2016 I lose over 20% range. A lot of that is how the pack has to keep itself warm as well, not just me. If Tesla had thrown a heat pump in there for just the cabin it wouldn’t be as effective…which I haven’t looked into the tech package F-150 but I suspect is what was done.

 

[Electric_hillbilly]

I’m always curious (as an SR truck owner) about why 240mi range seems so only marginally adequate. Do you drive more than 240mi in a normal day? (that would be 62k miles/yr, driving the truck only on weekdays!) Perhaps some do, but most of us drive a fraction of that. Plugging in every night (in a garage, especially in cold climates) is part of the answer, so that you always start your day with a full charge (or 80% or 90% or whatever your preferred charge limit) and a warm battery pack.

Hi,
I drive around 110 daily and do have a few days a month that I drive 215. While it is enough to make it, you never know I'd the chargers are going to work, power outages, etc. So I like to have a little room for errors and avoid operating under best case scenarios. Maybe most guys are lucky, but lady luck doesn't always want to dance with me

 

[Electric_hillbilly]

My full expectation is no as well. When I want the heat pump, I'll order my T3 ;-)

Lol

Thank you all for the Input. Good comments out here.

I think, we can all agree it would be nice, not a breakthrough that will give us crazy efficiency but a little extra

 

[TaxmanHog]

This morning the temp was 28°, my battery was fully charged from yesterday.

I did a remote start at 7:45 to the time I unplugged at 8:07, using a total of 1.522 KWH for those 22 minutes, just prior to unplugging the system was only drawing 2.063 KW, the first five minutes ran as high as 9.094 KW

Energy consumption based on the trailing 7 minutes 8am to 8:07 was 0.362 KWH, extrapolated to 3.102 KWH {0.362/7*60} could this be the running rate of keeping the cabin warm during a drive, possibly, but wind infiltration and hot bodies in the cabin could moderate the energy needed.

 

[meow]

The solution to the heating problem is in my avatar.

But seriously, while I don't live in the coldest climate (far from it), heated seats + bundling up aren't the solution for some disabilities in the household.

@Dylanch has teased the solution that I want to see documented.

 

[F150LAQS]

Anyone knows if ford will be able to retrofit 2022 and 2023 models with heat pump to gain some extra range ?

My 2023 ER Lariat gives me about 240 miles and in these hills with weather I can only expect it to get worse. I love the truck but range is a bit of an issue

240 with winter conditions and hilly driving? you're supposed to get around 320, correct?

 

[RickLightning]

240 with winter conditions and hilly driving? you're supposed to get around 320, correct?

No. If you get 320 you're doing city driving.

Does your gas vehicle get the EPA mileage? No. No vehicle gets that.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

240 with winter conditions and hilly driving? you're supposed to get around 320, correct?

I think part of the problem is some folks don’t truly know.

Twice a month, I’m running my truck (and other EVs) from 100% to near 0-5% remaining range, and I track exactly what my real world miles are, so I know.

But unfortunately a lot of folks jump in and the range display adjusts and that’s what they think they have. I’ve certainly seen 320, but never gotten it. But I’ve also seen 240 and got 280. Heck I’ve seen 100 and got 180 with a trailer in tow.

It’s hard to say until you do a long continuous trip. And since startup energy is significantly higher, measuring multiple trips isn’t a good indicator either. There are certainly folks like me, but we’re talking regular 4 hour long non stop trips to truly determine the range capabilities here and I’m not sure there are a ton of folks who run it that way to be able to say the truck actually gets X.

FWIW, I saw 1.8mi/kWh through the Appalachians doing 75-85mph.

 

[Electric_hillbilly]

240 with winter conditions and hilly driving? you're supposed to get around 320, correct?

That's before winter conditions. And yes the ER is marked as 320. Not here in the foothills.

 

[Electric_hillbilly]

I think part of the problem is some folks don’t truly know.

Twice a month, I’m running my truck (and other EVs) from 100% to near 0-5% remaining range, and I track exactly what my real world miles are, so I know.

But unfortunately a lot of folks jump in and the range display adjusts and that’s what they think they have. I’ve certainly seen 320, but never gotten it. But I’ve also seen 240 and got 280. Heck I’ve seen 100 and got 180 with a trailer in tow.

It’s hard to say until you do a long continuous trip. And since startup energy is significantly higher, measuring multiple trips isn’t a good indicator either. There are certainly folks like me, but we’re talking regular 4 hour long non stop trips to truly determine the range capabilities here and I’m not sure there are a ton of folks who run it that way to be able to say the truck actually gets X.

FWIW, I saw 1.8mi/kWh through the Appalachians doing 75-85mph.

1.8 at that speed sounds good to me. My regular commute is 1.25 hrs each way and once a month I do a 4-5hr drive one way. In a few more months I'll be able to better judge. The 240 is actual from 90% to 12% gotta keep driving though

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