Are we losing the EV Revolution?

[Toby57]

Part of the problem with the climate debate is that grifters and power seeking maniacs use it to further their own agendas and force things on us that don't even address the issue (cap-n-trade for example). CO2 by itself is a real issue, but it's not going to end the world in ten years or whatever other hyperbolic statements these people make.

Regardless of warming, we should go electric to:
- not send $$$ to the middle east, venezuela, etc..
- be energy independent for security reasons
- we're going to run out of cheap oil eventually



There is NOTHING special about EVs that makes OTA updates or other connected features unique to EVs. And you don't need OTA to have a software kill switch in any modern vehicle that has connected features. If the gov ever mandates remote kill, all cars will come with it. You can disable the modem in the Lightning the same as any other car and stop getting OTAs if you want. There is nothing uniquely pro government control conspiracy about having an EV powertrain.

It don't have to be the government. The manufacturer can give and take away on their whim.

Sponsored

 

[MurphysLaww]

It don't have to be the government. The manufacturer can give and take away on their whim.

Wonder how the eventual aftermarket will be able to affect this. I used to race with a couple guys that worked for CobbTuning reverse engineering BMW's, Subaru's and Porsches. The expertise is out there. It's not like we're going to increase emissions, lol.

 

[PreservedSwine]

Part of the problem with the climate debate is that grifters and power seeking maniacs use it to further their own agendas and force things on us that don't even address the issue (cap-n-trade for example). CO2 by itself is a real issue, but it's not going to end the world in ten years or whatever other hyperbolic statements these people make.

Regardless of warming, we should go electric to:
- not send $$$ to the middle east, venezuela, etc..
- be energy independent for security reasons
- we're going to run out of cheap oil eventually



There is NOTHING special about EVs that makes OTA updates or other connected features unique to EVs. And you don't need OTA to have a software kill switch in any modern vehicle that has connected features. If the gov ever mandates remote kill, all cars will come with it. You can disable the modem in the Lightning the same as any other car and stop getting OTAs if you want. There is nothing uniquely pro government control conspiracy about having an EV powertrain.

I totally agree with the sentiment, but it’s worth mentioning several things.
We’re enriching China, and have become quite dependent on them for the precious minerals necessary for battery manufacturing. Additionally, we’re literally funding child slave labor in the process.

The USA is sitting on the largest oil reserves in the world (shale)

Sure- we’ll possibly run out of cheap oil someday. But nothing points to it happening anytime soon. Drilling techniques and technology are constantly improving, as well as once empty oil fields have replenished themselves over several decades. As far as I know, no one really understand just how the earth produces oil, and at what rate. I trust the free market to solve future problems far more efficiently than the government mandating the “proper” solution.

If we depend on battery powered electric vehicles, we also need to factor in the fuel taxes currently on gasoline and diesel, which to this point, everyone seems to be ignoring completely. As ev vehicles take market share from ice, tax revenue will decline. We need to make it up somewhere.

Also, if we depend solely on electricity to power all vehicles, we’ve given up control and autonomy over our transportation, and transportation costs.

Just a few random thoughts- not trying to make a point or be argumentative, but it’s worth mentioning.

 

[Peddyr]

Renewed my Registration for both of my vehicles yesterday and noticed the cost only dropped by $20. Dug into it and sure enough....$100 EV charge to recoup lost gas tax revenue. Felt like I was living in Massachusetts again. NH hates EV owners. How else do you explain $0 incentives when you buy an EV and no real charging infrastructure to speak of? On the bright side, Eversource will be dropping rates to $.08 per KW in February....so there is that I guess.

 

[bosox8]

I agree from the marketing standpoint - My Lightning is the best truck I have ever owned - without qualification.

That said, we need to move MUCH MUCH faster on the whole climate thing. People won't enjoy their "liberties" quite so much when modern society is collapsing from worldwide wars caused by the mass migration of billions of people.

I guess this political viewpoint is acceptable, Moderator?

 

[TaxmanHog]

There is a LOT of political sentiment in this thread, hoping we don't have to lock or delete it, please remember to be respectful, this is a diverse community with many & varying points of view.

BTW, I think it's better to have respectful open conversation then to be locked in a box of ignorance.

 

[Losi]

There is a LOT of political sentiment in this thread, hoping we don't have to lock or delete it, please remember to be respectful, this is a diverse community with many & varying points of view.

BTW, I think it's better to have respectful open conversation then to be locked in a box of ignorance.

I agree. The whole premise of this thread is (necessarily, I think) politically charged (pardon the pun!). Whether or to what degree countries adopt EV’s says a lot about their views about the climate and energy policies. It’s a debate that needs to be had. Whether we can do it respectfully is another question altogether.

 

[luebri]

There is a LOT of political sentiment in this thread, hoping we don't have to lock or delete it, please remember to be respectful, this is a diverse community with many & varying points of view.

BTW, I think it's better to have respectful open conversation then to be locked in a box of ignorance.

I respect the statement, but let’s be honest any comments on this forum stating the other side of the climate change debate are not Given nearly the same political "leash"

 

[TaxmanHog]

I respect the statement, but let’s be honest any comments on this forum stating the other side of the climate change debate are not Given nearly the same political "leash"

I don't recall making any moderation edits on this thread, self moderation and mutual respect are welcome, I find trying to make everyone happy impossible in discussions of this nature.

 

[John Becker]

I'm probably the only conservative Republican on this forum. I just laugh at the politics surrounding EVs. I like them due to their utility. I'm finding that my F150 Lightning Lariat SR is costing me 5 cents per mile for electric at 12.8 cents per kWh. My 2018 Audi S5 costs me 10 cents per mile for gasoline and my previous 2014 F150 was costing me 17 cents per mile. Those costs don't include oil changes or other maintenance.
As a free market capitalist, I favor letting the market forces decide the viability of EVs and green energy in general.
That said, I understand that many have strong arguments to the contrary and I respect that.
BTW, I think my wife is starting to like my new truck. She quit calling me a woke libtard. That's progress.

 

[luebri]

I'm probably the only conservative Republican on this forum. I just laugh at the politics surrounding EVs. I like them due to their utility. I'm finding that my F150 Lightning Lariat SR is costing me 5 cents per mile for electric at 12.8 cents per kWh. My 2018 Audi S5 costs me 10 cents per mile for gasoline and my previous 2014 F150 was costing me 17 cents per mile. Those costs don't include oil changes or other maintenance.
As a free market capitalist, I favor letting the market forces decide the viability of EVs and green energy in general.
That said, I understand that many have strong arguments to the contrary and I respect that.
BTW, I think my wife is starting to like my new truck. She quit calling me a woke libtard. That's progress.

You are not the only one.

 

[Peddyr]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Grumpy2]

It may take several generations before most of the people in the "free world" will agree on something as vague as climate change and the weather.

A dictator has a better time, look at China and their advances in solar and electric vehicles, even with their economy in the dump. They seem to be at least 10 years ahead in tech and vision, but they are so big it will take time.

At least we have started.....

 

[RickKeen]

If we depend on battery powered electric vehicles, we also need to factor in the fuel taxes currently on gasoline and diesel, which to this point, everyone seems to be ignoring completely. As ev vehicles take market share from ice, tax revenue will decline. We need to make it up somewhere.

Many states already have an EV tax baked into their annual registration process to approximate the revenue lost from gas road taxes.
The feds are still handing out incentives, but someday they too will need to collect road taxes somehow.
For example, here in MN its $75 per year but there are proposals on raising it.
https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/2021-04/sf1086(hf2250)_1 electric surcharges.pdf

 

[luebri]

Many states already have an EV tax baked into their annual registration process to approximate the revenue lost from gas road taxes.
The feds are still handing out incentives, but someday they too will need to collect road taxes somehow.
For example, here in MN its $75 per year but there are proposals on raising it.
https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/2021-04/sf1086(hf2250)_1 electric surcharges.pdf

In Wisconsin this year, they tacked a surcharge onto our surcharge. My total fee was $275, and I'm ok with it. EV's need to pay for the roads as well. Probably should pay more based on the weight and the negative effect that will have on road wear and tear.

"On July 6, 2023, a new law created an additional $75 annual surcharge fee to be added and collected for electric vehicles in addition to the existing $100 annual surcharge fee. "

Sponsored