NACS-to-NACS extension cable

[chl]

You (and C&D) are conflating two events.

Tesla included the Magic Dock and credit-card readers in the v4 North American SuperCharger so that they could qualify for NEVI money. The legislation specifically requires that the chargers be CCS1 compatible and allow any driver to pay for charging with a credit card. These requirements apply ONLY to the chargers receiving NEVI funding -- specifically, Tesla could deploy some v4 SuperChargers and make them available to all CCS1 vehicles without opening any existing V1, V2, or V3 or other (non-Federally-funded) V4 chargers to non-Tesla owners. The NEVI requirement only applies to the new chargers that are installed with Government money.

Around the same time, Ford and Tesla reached an agreement to allow Ford vehicles to charge at existing (pre-NEVI) V3 SuperChargers and to use plug-and-play at V3 and V4 SuperChargers. In exchange Ford will equip future EVs with the Tesla (NACS) charge connector. Most other EV carmakers followed suit thereafter. However, these agreements do not allow Tesla to qualify for NEVI funding. Even if every automaker in the US had started shipping all vehicles with NACS plugs starting in May 2023, that wouldn't have qualified Tesla for NEVI funding. The law says chargers must have a CCS plug and a credit card reader. It is possible that future rounds of Federal funding will have different rules ... but at this point, another round of Federal funding for chargers isn't guaranteed, let alone what rules will be in effect.

Car and Driver claims that the two events are related in Elon Musk's mind. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't -- but C&D doesn't provide any proof points other than that the two things happened around the same time and that nobody in the industry took Musk seriously about charging prior to the Ford deal. Absent a statement from Musk, we can't really be sure what he was thinking. What is certain is that there is no law or regulation that makes either event dependent on the other.

It may well be smart business: a deal with all of the major automakers to ensure that their vehicles work best with Tesla's charging network, combined with capturing a huge percentage of the NEVI money to build out that charging network at Federal expense does sound like a good way to become the king of EV "gas stations". Tesla's next challenge will be to ensure that the chargers remain reliable, available, and profitable despite the increased use.

Well the Wall Street Journal and C&D are pretty well connected to sources. Are you?

When Tesla went public, that made Musk a fiduciary with duties to the shareholders, to act in their best interests. Not cashing in on the Federal money could be construed as a breach of that duty.

But seriously what is the big deal about this?

The history is pretty clear. First Muck/Tesla refuses to let any other companies license the charger plug technology and won't participate in the standards body so they adopt CCS as a standard. In 2021 the Infrastructure bill is passed with over $7B in subsidies to build out a charging network with chargers every 50 miles on major roads. Then in Nov. 2022 Tesla/Musk changes their strategy and opened their standard to every EV maker. Why? Well maybe because if they didn't their standard would die and be supplanted by CCS? And maybe because they wouldn't get the subsidies?

I think your time line is a bit off on this.

The MAGIC DOCK began testing in the US in March 2023, with about 40 some by the end of 2023.

It wasn't until MAY 2023 that Ford and Tesla made the deal and Ford became the first US automaker to adopt the NACS standard.

Both Ford and Tesla are publicly traded companies with fiduciary duties to their stockholders to make good business decisions that benefit the company.

So what is the controversy?

It is pretty obvious the timing of Infrastructure Bill passing in 2021 and then Tesla changing course, and the subsequent collecting of the bulk of Fed. grants under the Bill by Tesla indicates the motivation for opening their standard to all EV makers.

If it walks like a duck....

Some day some better plug may come along, or maybe cord-free charging will become widespread, who knows.

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[davehu]

cordless charging? NOT.... Ah, but we can dream!

 

[Cosmacelf]

Btw, the WSJ article was also wrong in saying Tesla was getting the lions share of NEVI funds. I have yet seen them get more than 15% in any state.

 

[KickingGas]

cordless charging? NOT.... Ah, but we can dream!

It's being worked on...

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/rel...n-charge-electric-vehicles-as-they-drive.html

 

[RickLightning]

Those that keep saying that Tesla is getting NEVI Funda for simply opening the SuperCharger network are wrong. They don't remotely qualify.

Even a Magic Dock location doesn't qualify, but it is clear that their promise to open 3,500 by year end was part of a deal with the government.

And it is clear to anyone that Tesla is not getting the lion's share of state NEVI funds.

 

[vandy1981]

Even a Magic Dock location doesn't qualify, but it is clear that their promise to open 3,500 by year end was part of a deal with the government.

I think Magic Dock locations qualify, as long as the CCS adapter is tethered to the dispenser.

 

[RickLightning]

I think Magic Dock locations qualify, as long as the CCS adapter is tethered to the dispenser.

No credit card reader...

Requires Tesla app.

 

[vandy1981]

No credit card reader...

Requires Tesla app.

V4 chargers have magic docks, screens, and NFC readers.

 

[RickLightning]

V4 chargers have magic docks, screens, and NFC readers.

I believe they must have a credit card reader.

Older locations with Magic Docks are part of the 3,500 deal.

 

[luebri]

So what is the controversy?

It is pretty obvious the timing of Infrastructure Bill passing in 2021 and then Tesla changing course, and the subsequent collecting of the bulk of Fed. grants under the Bill by Tesla indicates the motivation for opening their standard to all EV makers.

If it walks like a duck....

Correlation does not equal causation.

You have a slant against Tesla or Elon. That is the only thing that is walking like a duck on this topic.

 

[Lytning]

It's being worked on...

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/rel...n-charge-electric-vehicles-as-they-drive.html

Back to the future ...

 

[chl]

Correlation does not equal causation.

You have a slant against Tesla or Elon. That is the only thing that is walking like a duck on this topic.

LOL.

Res ipsa loquitur (a doctrine in common law under which a court can infer negligence from the very nature of an accident or injury in the absence of direct evidence on how any defendant behaved in the context of tort litigation).

It speaks for itself.

No, not a Musk fan-boy by any means. He is kind of a complicated fellow.
But I don't think attacking him serves any purpose or is appropriate on this forum.

Nor do I think your accusing me of being biased against Tesla or Elon serves any purpose either.

I have always thought Tesla makes pretty awesome cars, though until recently not in my price range.

Get enough points of "correlation" and you've got a pretty good case for causation.

I don't believe in coincidences when it comes to changing strategy and thereby qualify for million plus grants for government money - it's just good business.

Why do you see that in a negative light? I don't.
I am not knocking Tesla or Musk for doing it.

And we are all glad it happened.

All's well that ends well.

 

[Hammick]

Yeah, I’m happy to have access too. But don’t get it twisted. They’re doing it for the money. A boatload of public money. Once a company accepts public funds, the public has an expectation that the product works for them.

Which is why they need to be held accountable. I've seen zero progress towards getting V2 superchargers updated.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Which is why they need to be held accountable. I've seen zero progress towards getting V2 superchargers updated.

But you can’t always fault Tesla in this one. Oregon for their NEVI funds decided late in the game they are awarding based on a corridor rather then basic location. So if Tesla is not the winner for the corridor, they will likely get no NEVI funds to upgrade existing places within that corridor.

So at least in Oregon, it may not end up being Supreme Leader Musk’s fault this time.

 

[Hammick]

But you can’t always fault Tesla in this one. Oregon for their NEVI funds decided late in the game they are awarding based on a corridor rather then basic location. So if Tesla is not the winner for the corridor, they will likely get no NEVI funds to upgrade existing places within that corridor.

So at least in Oregon, it may not end up being Supreme Leader Musk’s fault this time.

Although I haven't seen the contract the deal between Ford and Tesla surely requires 'Tesla to spend their own money to upgrade the V2 chargers. It's not like we are using these chargers for free.

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