Installed Generac Transfer Switch and still getting ground fault

[Runaway Tractor]

Disconnecting the ground at the generator inlet is the tactic for installations without a neutral isolating subpanel (such as a UL listed interlocking backfeed breaker). The subpanel the OP is installing mitigates the need for this. Yes the ground from the truck should be connected. Yes the neutral from the truck needs to be connected.

I think so many of us have realized that the GROUND wire is the issue... even though having the ground, or not, is likely neither here nor there. Sure, a ground is 'nice', but it is NOT always necessary. Ground is not the be all end all to everything electrical. We went many many years without a ground in our homes.

Neutrals are similar. You'll notice that your EVSE does NOT require, or even have, a Neutral - it is only two hots and a ground. The Neutral is for load balancing, but there is no 'balancing' required for a device that draws the exact same amount from both hot wires.
A NEMA 14-50 outlet has a GROUND prong, yes, BY DEFAULT. It is because it can be used in many various scenarios where a Neutral IS needed, such as your oven / stove, or a motorhome / camper, where both hot wires are NOT necessarily having the same draw of power.
Many of your household appliances, bathroom appliances, and devices do NOT have a ground. Why? It's not needed.

Electricity seems to be kin to the English language: Many 'facts' and 'rules' don't always necessarily apply to every situation.
- "I" before "E", yes, mostly, but NOT always. etc.
- Pronounce a differently spelled word the same as another, yes... interesting.
- use a word two different ways to have two different meanings.

For everyone else reading, please ignore all of this rambling nonsense. That's not how any of this works. This is something that would be in a satirical meme on a electrical hacks facebook group.

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[Henry Ford]

Already done and works fine. If the ground was attached then the GFCI would trip on the truck

This is because you have ground touching neutral o n at least one circuit within the switching panel. I went through the same thing except I took the time to identify the problem.

What you have done works but when you give this advice online you should post a disclaimer that you have disabled the GFCI function of the truck.

I'm not sure why you went through the expense of a neutral switching panel if you disabled the whole purpose of the switch. Finding the ground fault is not that difficult. I laid out the steps above. I suggest going through them in order to get full capability of your truck.

 

[Danface]

This is because you have ground touching neutral o n at least one circuit within the switching panel. I went through the same thing except I took the time to identify the problem.

What you have done works but when you give this advice online you should post a disclaimer that you have disabled the GFCI function of the truck.

I'm not sure why you went through the expense of a neutral switching panel if you disabled the whole purpose of the switch. Finding the ground fault is not that difficult. I laid out the steps above. I suggest going through them in order to get full capability of your truck.

Agree, about the disclaimer, me bad and will keep that in mind in the future.

I used a lockout so all circuits still have a path to ground. The picture is of the generator plug from the truck to the panel and any ground fault would still trip the GFCI breakers, just not the GFCI on the truck. The 200 amp panel is new, almost all the circuits in the house and up to code for wet locations (including the outlet near the back door that could get wet if the dog shakes off) and everything that needs GFCI protection has it so, in this case, I feel comfortable relying with the way it's setup.

 

[chl]

Hoping the community can help here. I've read tons of similar forum posts but having trouble finding a code-compliant solution. Got the Generac 6852 Transfer Switch installed by my electrician, and we're still getting a ground fault as soon as we switch over to Pro Power. Has anyone run into this issue on the install and care to share what the cause & fix was?

• I know we can end this nightmare by disconnecting the ground but I want to do this the code compliant way if we can
• To test the truck outlet, we plugged Sawzall into bed via nema outlet, works fine (I have a nema extension cable that splits into 4 12v outlets)
• We shut off Main, switched off every breaker in Generac panel except for one outlet with that same Sawzall plugged in, and truck ground faults as soon as we use the same tool

Some appliances tools etc will produce HF (high frequency) noise on the lines which will set off GFCI's, but I think if that were the case it would open when plugged directly into the bed outlet, unless the 4-way splitter is lifting a ground (on the neutral) somehow. (I assume you menat 4 120V outlets not 12V?)

Inductive loads can cause GFCI's to trip as well sometimes.

So you are left with the possibility the particular outlet you are using for the Sawzall has an issue, which could be arcing, a bad connection, or overloading, for example.

Replace the outlet and see if that solves the problem maybe?

Did you try the Sawzall tool with a different breaker/outlet?

PS: The GFCI will open due to an overload as well as a ground fault, like a regular breaker. SO a miswired outlet can cause a short or arcing that would open the breaker.

 

[chl]

Neutrals are similar. You'll notice that your EVSE does NOT require, or even have, a Neutral - it is only two hots and a ground. The Neutral is for load balancing, but there is no 'balancing' required for a device that draws the exact same amount from both hot wires.
A NEMA 14-50 outlet has a GROUND prong, yes, BY DEFAULT. It is because it can be used in many various scenarios where a Neutral IS needed, such as your oven / stove, or a motorhome / camper, where both hot wires are NOT necessarily having the same draw of power.
Many of your household appliances, bathroom appliances, and devices do NOT have a ground. Why? It's not needed.


Electricity seems to be kin to the English language: Many 'facts' and 'rules' don't always necessarily apply to every situation.
- "I" before "E", yes, mostly, but NOT always. etc.
- Pronounce a differently spelled word the same as another, yes... interesting.
- use a word two different ways to have two different meanings.

The electrical codes are for safety.
Gotta have a ground when powering a dwelling per the code.
When powering a dwelling with a split-phase (typical) panel, gotta have a neutral per the code.
The neutral has to be grounded per the code.
The neutral should only be grounded in ONE PLACE per the code.

If you do not connect the ground from your source to your load you are in violation of the code and it is unsafe - period.

Appliances without a ground pin/wire are double-insulated - have a non-metallic case for example, so there is no chance of electrocution from a metal part in the hand of the user.

Get a copy of the most recent code or at least a copy of Wiring Simplified (available at big box hardware stores), or hire a licensed electrician before you start thinking you can break the "rules."

It ain't the same as the rules of grammar or spelling.

 

[chl]

PS: Re: EVSE's that don't need the neutral: it is because they are 240VAC, they still need a ground. Note that there is 120VAC between either hot lead and ground however.

The neutral is needed for 120VAC though such as with the Ford Mobile Power Cord 120v dongle (see illustrations). They also have a ground for safety in case of a fault.

Re: why we have neutrals: They are to provide 120V circuits in a typical house through a split-phase main service panel (see illustration). 240VAC comes into the house and feeds the main panel with 2 hots and a neutral is also provided as shown (there is also a ground for the service not shown).
The 240V is split between the two columns of breakers in the panel.
The neutral is bonded (connected to ground) in the main service panel.
120VAC circuits use a hot, a neutral and a ground wire (12-2 wire shown).
240VAC circuits use 2 hots and a ground wire (10-2 wire shown).
If the 240VAC appliance also needs a 120VAC feed, then a neutral wire is also provided (10-3 wire shown).

 

[RickLightning]

The need for neutral is why I had my 60amp circuit run with 4 conductors instead of 3. If I ever want to change to a 14-50 outlet, that neutral is needed.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

The need for neutral is why I had my 60amp circuit run with 4 conductors instead of 3. If I ever want to change to a 14-50 outlet, that neutral is needed.

Wise. When you have to go through the effort of pulling new wires, always plan for the future. Extra wires for additional circuits, extra cat6, etc. cheaper now than to try repulling later.

 

[Jhawks9028]

Hoping the community can help here. I've read tons of similar forum posts but having trouble finding a code-compliant solution. Got the Generac 6852 Transfer Switch installed by my electrician, and we're still getting a ground fault as soon as we switch over to Pro Power. Has anyone run into this issue on the install and care to share what the cause & fix was?

• I know we can end this nightmare by disconnecting the ground but I want to do this the code compliant way if we can
• To test the truck outlet, we plugged Sawzall into bed via nema outlet, works fine (I have a nema extension cable that splits into 4 12v outlets)
• We shut off Main, switched off every breaker in Generac panel except for one outlet with that same Sawzall plugged in, and truck ground faults as soon as we use the same tool

I had the same issue and never got it resolved even with a master electrician helping. The 1996-era power distribution in my house causes ground faults errors. I ended up paying to remove the panel and instead configured an interlock. If I use the truck as a generator, I’ll have to remove the ground plug.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

The 1996-era power distribution in my house causes ground faults errors

Not much has changed with residential wiring in the USA since the 90s. This sounds more like you need a different electrician.

Was your master electrician unable to properly wire up the sub-panel for neutral switching? Or was your master electrician unable to identify which circuit had a ground fault? There is nothing more or less to it and any competent person hand with electricity should be able to figure it out.

 

[v2h8484]

I had the same issue and never got it resolved even with a master electrician helping. The 1996-era power distribution in my house causes ground faults errors. I ended up paying to remove the panel and instead configured an interlock. If I use the truck as a generator, I’ll have to remove the ground plug.

Finding a secondary ground-neutral bond point in an older house with lots of circuits can be about as easy as writing out 1 to a billion by hand ... straight forward but rather time consuming.

Did the electrician decide to stop or you decided not to pay his hourly to continue after a while? It's understandable that many people choose the later.

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