Powertrain questions

[superds]

I have some questions about the powertrain I would have expected Ford to have answered already but haven’t found the answers yet myself. Anybody have insight to my below questions?

What is the gear ratio of the transaxle? Is it direct drive or is there a torque converter?
How does the low speed ground force compared to a 4x4 F-150 with two speed transfer case? (Looking for a number comparison answer). How does the lightning perform in off-road low speed situations compared to regular F-150?

Is reverse accomplished via changing a gear in the transaxle or reversing the rotation of the motor?


Can the lightning be flat towed for long distances, like behind a motor home?


Will it be possible to put the vehicle in a rear wheel drive mode to experience the unique driving experience only possible with RWD?

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[Brian Head Yankee]

I checked the internet regarding flat tow and learned the EV's are not flat towable because the motors can't be disconnected from the drive shafts.

I guess we will learn whether or not Ford has the feature but I seriously doubt it.

 

[superds]

If they don’t have flat tow capabilities that’s a huge miss for EV adoption. Hence my questions about the “transaxle”, can it allow wheels to be decoupled from electric motors in such a way to flat tow?

Jeep is coming out with a electric Wrangler, I would have to imagine that will be flat towable. I think many jeeps get towed more miles than they get driven. I know I used to tow my old Bronco more miles than I’d drive it.

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

sure, but will an off roader buy an E Jeep and flat tow it to the trails? I doubt it. I haven't seen many charge stations out in the sticks.

 

[superds]

I think a ev Jeep is a great use scenario if you can tow it to the off-road area. You could probably off road all day on a charge since you’re at low speeds but might not have enough charge to get home making the flat tow ability more important.

 

[diesel97]

I think a ev Jeep is a great use scenario if you can tow it to the off-road area. You could probably off road all day on a charge since you’re at low speeds but might not have enough charge to get home making the flat tow ability more important.

might be low speed but high torque. I would be surprised if jeep ev can be flat towed, a whole different game in a ev to pull that off

 

[superds]

might be low speed but high torque. I would be surprised if jeep ev can be flat towed, a whole different game in a ev to pull that off

You do have a valid point with high torque. I still believe you could wheel all day on a single charge the way most people I’ve gone 4wheeling with do. They don’t constantly drive the whole day but drive for a bit then stop and take a break or take turns on obstacles.

 

[Fastnf]

I have some questions about the powertrain I would have expected Ford to have answered already but haven’t found the answers yet myself. Anybody have insight to my below questions?

What is the gear ratio of the transaxle? Is it direct drive or is there a torque converter?
How does the low speed ground force compared to a 4x4 F-150 with two speed transfer case? (Looking for a number comparison answer). How does the lightning perform in off-road low speed situations compared to regular F-150?

Is reverse accomplished via changing a gear in the transaxle or reversing the rotation of the motor?


Can the lightning be flat towed for long distances, like behind a motor home?


Will it be possible to put the vehicle in a rear wheel drive mode to experience the unique driving experience only possible with RWD?

EV’s are direct drive through a reduction gear and differential. No torque converter. Not a transaxle just a simple one speed differential. Reversing is acomplished by running the motor the opposite direction (no reverse gear needed).

EV’s have maximum torque at zero rpm. It‘s the nature of this type of electric motor. So there is no need for a two speed gear box to amplify the torque at low speeds.

Yes it is possible to run all wheel drive EV’s in two wheel drive mode. Porsche does this with the Taycan to optimize efficiency . I don’t know if the Lighting will have this capability but it is possible.

 

[superds]

EV’s are direct drive through a reduction gear and differential. No toruge converter. Not a transaxle just a simple one speed differential. Reversing is acomplished by running the motor the opposite direction (no reverse gear needed).

EV’s have maximum torque at zero rpm. It‘s the nature of this type of electric motor. So there is no need for a two speed gear box to amplify the torque at low speeds.

Yes it is possible to run all wheel drive EV’s in two wheel drive mode. Porsche does this with the Taycan to optimize efficiency . I don,t know if the Lighting will have this capability but it is possible.

I only used the term “transaxle” because that was the term I saw on the Ford press documents. I’m also guessing it’s more of a directly driven differential but I’m trying not to speculate.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I have some questions about the powertrain I would have expected Ford to have answered already but haven’t found the answers yet myself. Anybody have insight to my below questions?

What is the gear ratio of the transaxle? Is it direct drive or is there a torque converter?

Direct. We don't know the gear ratio yet but that will be in the Tech Specs by the time ordering begins.

Is reverse accomplished via changing a gear in the transaxle or reversing the rotation of the motor?

Reversing motor. The Lightning has a single speed transmission.

Can the lightning be flat towed for long distances, like behind a motor home?

Will it be possible to put the vehicle in a rear wheel drive mode to experience the unique driving experience only possible with RWD?

Flat towing is doubtful, just as there will be no rear wheel drive mode. Both motors use permanent magnets. Ford may adjust the motor bias to feel more like a RWD as they have with the Mach E.

Rivian can be flat-towed to charge the battery using the regenerative braking. This isn't the best way to charge but can work in a pinch. That may be possible with the Lightning as well. Whether Ford advertises that as an option is another matter.

 

[superds]

Reversing motor. The Lightning has a single speed transmission.

Using the word “transmission” is as confusing as Ford calling it a “transaxle” since nearly every automotive transmission or transaxle since the beginning of cars has had multiple forward and at least one reverse gear, ie, a three speed transmission has three forward gears and a reverse gear. I feel “gear reduction unit” would have been a better term to use if there truly is not a reverse built into the unit.

 

[Pedaldude]

It's a gearbox or transmission nonetheless whether it's a single speed or ten, it's pretty well established engineering terminology. Gearboxes and transmissions precede the automobile by over a century in marine and industrial use.

Some marine gearboxes also don't have a reverse gear. The two stroke diesel engines are stopped and restarted backwards!

An electric motor, depending on it's design can benefit from multiple gear ratios but for street use most modern EVs have a single gear for better driveline efficiency. I don't remember where I read it or if it's even correct but I thought I saw that Lightning has different gear ratios for the front and rear motors, which if true would effectively give it two gears.

Torque converters are incredibly inefficient and unnecessary for an electric vehicle.

Differentials only do one thing and that's allow the wheels to move at different speeds and they're only one component of what is colloquially referred to in automotive circles as a differential. In the case of a spool, the rear differential isn't even a differential but most everyone casually calls them that and it's understood, unless they're 'that guy.'

For flat towing a direct drive EV, the aftermarket may come up with a solution to disconnect the driveline and it would be very similar to locking wheel hubs.

 

[superds]

Well established engineering terms aside, this is automotive, marketed to the dumb masses like me.

Yeah, I read somewhere that the lightning has two different gear ratios front/rear as well.

I’d still like to believe Ford is smart enough to have a flat tow solution from the factory.

 

[Pedaldude]

It being Detroit, I am surprised they haven't made up trademarked names for everything. Call it an Ecoglide transmission or something silly like that.

They're probably smart enough but they're definitely cheap enough to not offer something as niche as flat towing when they're not even offering an extended or regular cab model.

Something like their electromagnetic IWEs would be an excellent mechanical option but would probably cost at least $1k to implement if compatible with the Lightning. If they do come out with a solution, it will likely be electric, running the motors with power from either the battery, the towing vehicle's alternator or a combination of the two. My guess is that the energy used to freewheel the motors at highway speeds while being towed would be minimal. It all depends on the design of the motors and the controller but some motors can be freewheeled indefinitely without anything other than bearing wear.

Also, while some Jeeps might be flat towed, I think 95% or more are being used in the same capacity as a Toyota Yaris 99.9% of the time. The people who flat tow a manual transmission Jeep are dwindling along with the new cars coming out with clutches, I can't remember seeing one on the road either behind something, with a tow bar or for sale used in a while. Because every time I see one on Craigslist, they're always adamant about the mileage being 'mostly' from flat towing. Same for Geo Metros and Trackers.

 

[superds]

It being Detroit, I am surprised they haven't made up trademarked names for everything. Call it an Ecoglide transmission or something silly like that.

This is a spot on comment.

All this talk of probably not being able to flat tow brings up another question: surely the lightning will have a neutral position on its gear selector, what will this actually do? Will I still be able to put it in neutral and push it out of the way if it’s dead? Will I be able to spin a wheel freely if I jack up the vehicle, as if to change a tire? If these situations work, why wouldn’t you be able to flat tow in neutral?

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