-20F to -30F performance and experience

[mr.Magoo]

Chart on the right shows the energy flow by the minute, for 24 minutes the battery warming effort ran initially started around 9 KW, then bumped itself up to 18 KW, chart on the right shows a total of 5.34 KWH consumed over that 24 minutes. I had the cabin warming function OFF in the configuration so that we see exactly what went into battery warming, truck has been in mid 20's weather all day.

Without logging OBD data at the same time it's hard to say what went where, all we know is that it didn't go to heat the cabin.
The actual heater doesn't appear (granted, it's Ford's OBD data and not a clamp on current meter) to ever draw more than 9.2kW, and in my logs I have the same results regardless if I'm on a L1 charger, my L2 capable of 9.6kW or a 50kW DCFC.

If the truck was sitting at the charge limit odds are it just went below the limit and called for more juice to "top it off", I mean, 9kW extra for 8 minutes is just 1 kWh so we're not talking much.

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[TaxmanHog]

Without logging OBD data at the same time it's hard to say what went where, all we know is that it didn't go to heat the cabin.
The actual heater doesn't appear (granted, it's Ford's OBD data and not a clamp on current meter) to ever draw more than 9.2kW, and in my logs I have the same results regardless if I'm on a L1 charger, my L2 capable of 9.6kW or a 50kW DCFC.

If the truck was sitting at the charge limit odds are it just went below the limit and called for more juice to "top it off", I mean, 9kW extra for 8 minutes is just 1 kWh so we're not talking much.

My SOC was 55% above the 50% threshold, the Fordpass charge control panel didn't register any KW to the battery either and the SOC did go up by 1% that extra 9KW rate netting 1 KWH could have been the OBC kicking in regardless of my settings, and after the 15 minutes remote start: the GOM got more optimistic with 136 miles due to lesser demands for initial warm up on battery.

Just got back from the coffee drive, arriving at the garage at 49% and commenced with a few minutes of battery charging.

Adding 3 miles of energy, but the GOM actually dropped by 3 miles [114 to 111] in only a few minutes of time, this screen has been proven in prior experiments to have garbage data. The IPC still shows 100% power output being available, it should drop by tomorrow morning.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Silver Bells and Little Drummer Boy?! It's Christmas all year round in Massachusetts!

My wife loves a Sirius channel that is indeed 24/7/365 Christmas music , it's nice classic tunes from the golden era, eventually I get around to switching it out to other channels more my speed.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Keep in mind, this would be true if you use the entire battery capacity before your battery gets cold. If you drive 5 miles to the coffee shop, come back unplug and wake up tomorrow morning with your battery at the same ambient temperature as yesterday, you really got less than 2.5 miles out of that 5.34 KWh.

Yup, and further proof that the battery warming efforts for my low demand (power limits) and low mile daily trips are not worth the extra costs especially if repeated daily, in the spirit of science & engineering, I'm running these tests. but in the end I only plan to use departure timer with sufficient lead time for long haul winter travel, which isn't often.

 

[Maxx]

Yup, and further proof that the battery warming efforts for my low demand (power limits) and low mile daily trips are not worth the extra costs especially if repeated daily, in the spirit of science & engineering, I'm running these tests. but in the end I only plan to use departure timer with sufficient lead time for long haul winter travel, which isn't often.

Did you ever plug in to L2 to charge when battery temp was bellow zero? Does it precondition first above freezing and then starts to charge or charge at lower current, then ramps up?

One of the guys said, DCFC was at 40 KWh when it was cold but I am wondering how AC charging works when battery is frozen.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Did you ever plug in to L2 to charge when battery temp was bellow zero? Does it precondition first above freezing and then starts to charge or charge at lower current, then ramps up?

One of the guys said, DCFC was at 40 KWh when it was cold but I am wondering how AC charging works when battery is frozen.

Last night I was plugged in to L2 FCSP 80 amp capable, but we have not had brutal cold weather yet ie not lower that 15° f, my garage temp this morning was around 23° F.

I'd love to see some deep freeze conditions sub-zero and observe the spontaneous battery warming process and energy expenditure.

We have a few more days of cold weather then it turns milder next week, might have to see what February brings.

 

[Lightning Rod]

FOrdpass just came back online.

Ok, I thought something was wrong with my truck. I tried getting the app to do ANYTHING pertaining to my truck for 30 minutes or more. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Ok, I thought something was wrong with my truck. I tried getting the app to do ANYTHING pertaining to my truck for 30 minutes or more. Thanks for pointing that out.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/ford-pass-ford-com-down-resolved.18067/

 

[TaxmanHog]

Without logging OBD data at the same time it's hard to say what went where, all we know is that it didn't go to heat the cabin.
The actual heater doesn't appear (granted, it's Ford's OBD data and not a clamp on current meter) to ever draw more than 9.2kW, and in my logs I have the same results regardless if I'm on a L1 charger, my L2 capable of 9.6kW or a 50kW DCFC.

If the truck was sitting at the charge limit odds are it just went below the limit and called for more juice to "top it off", I mean, 9kW extra for 8 minutes is just 1 kWh so we're not talking much.

Additional details from this mornings remote start, show that the initial surge is indeed a brief amount of HVB charging, with some energy going to the PTC and some to the AC/DC charge controller.

This is the ramp up and the FP charging monitor, note one needs to do a pull-down refresh to see revised values as it transitions from one mode to another.

NOTE the distance added value is actually distance LOST since last night, the battery was already at target SOC 50%, balance of energy is going to the PTC to warm the cabin.

Total energy is 1.6 KWH for this 15 minute session.

 

[TaxmanHog]

The extra heat from last evening was lost, restricted power available as expected.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Having confirmed over the past few days that passive warming does not happen in my environmental conditions [~15 deg lows}, but the temps are sufficiently cold enough to restrict power output, I think my prior routine of charging in the very early morning provides two benefits, the truck warms the battery either via the PTC then when the HVB min TEMP is sufficient then battery charging produces more heat energy, this conditions the HVB enough to provide full 100% power during an initial leg of travel.

I'm charging up the HVB now to 85%, this is the ramp-up of the start of the charging session, this should take ~3 hours, Fordpass thinks it will take 2 hours and 45 minutes, when this is finished I expect to see 100% power available.

 

[Maxx]

Having confirmed over the past few days that passive warming does not happen in my environmental conditions [~15 deg lows}, but the temps are sufficiently cold enough to restrict power output, I think my prior routine of charging in the very early morning provides two benefits, the truck warms the battery either via the PTC then when the HVB min TEMP is sufficient then battery charging produces more heat energy, this conditions the HVB enough to provide full 100% power during an initial leg of travel.

I'm charging up the HVB now to 85%, this is the ramp-up of the start of the charging session, this should take ~3 hours, Fordpass thinks it will take 2 hours and 45 minutes, when this is finished I expect to see 100% power available.

It looks like immediately after you plugged in (9:15 AM), you got a healthy amount of juice (8kw). I wonder if your 7AM juicing made the battery warm enough for this or it would do this anyway even if battery was super cold. The fact that it is doing it in steps shows there is some sort of intelligence to deal with battery temp.

So you think it is safe to just plug it is and charge if battery is cold soaked (let the truck worry about protecting the battery) or should I preheat the battery first and then charge?


Edit: I heard, heating the battery may not result in all batteries reaching the same temp immediately. May be that is why Ford is preheating to 41F not 32F. That is why I thought may be if I wait a little after preheating the battery, the heat is well distributed to all batteries and safer for charging. I may be overthinking this and all this current is low compare to DCFC and batteries can handle it.

 

[TaxmanHog]

It looks like immediately after you plugged in (9:15 AM), you got a healthy amount of juice (8kw). I wonder if your 7AM juicing made the battery warm enough for this or it would do this anyway even if battery was super cold. The fact that it is doing it in steps shows there is some sort of intelligence to deal with battery temp.

So you think it is safe to just plug it is and charge if battery is cold soaked (let the truck worry about protecting the battery) or should I preheat the battery first and then charge?


Edit: I heard, heating the battery may not result in all batteries reaching the same temp immediately. May be that is why Ford is preheating to 41F not 32F. That is why I thought may be if I wait a little after preheating the battery, the heat is well distributed to all batteries and safer for charging. I may be overthinking this and all this current is low compare to DCFC and batteries can handle it.

I'm trusting the trucks [T3} energy management strategy.

The 0745 to 0800 cabin warming and local drive the grocery store might have sent some of the extra heat to the pack, not enough to raise the available power output to the motors, so it continued to protect against excessive discharging so as not to cause any harm to the cells.

Now that its charging, it could be that 8-9 KW is being consumed by the PTC with the balance slowly energizing the battery, as the MIN TEMP is reached, it shifts full-send to the charge converter and varies down the PTC current.

I should invest in one of these OBDII plugs and app to look at the PID's while this is happening.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Charging is now completed 49% to 85% 3 hours [131 * .36 = 47.2 KWH}

Emporia says I've used 54.3 KWH so far today, 1.6 for the morning warm up and 52.7 to charge.

The FP charging Session monitor says the battery took in 49.4 KWH, so that leaves 3.3 for conversion losses.

Note the DTE is now 254 using an optimistic 2.28 MPK.

 

[Maxx]

I should invest in one of these OBDII plugs and app to look at the PID's while this is happening.

You do see some interesting stuff with the scanner. Like After I turned off the truck while plugged in, it still was charging both HVB and LVB from AC for a while before it timed out. Considering my charge limits were bellow current SOC, this was unexpected. Scanner does help in getting to know the truck. I still have way to go.

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