A Tale of Two...Hubbells!

[atguru]

In January 2023 (when I took delivery of my Lightning Pro) I had an electrician install what I thought was the more industrial strength Hubbell 14-50. But just a month ago (April 2024), I started having problems charging the vehicle. Turns out one of the issues was this NEMA 1450 plug (on the top). Little did I know that apparently the charger plug was not seated properly and was arcing inside of the socket!

After this event, I am triple determined to have a much more robust connection for the charger. This time I made sure to get a industrial commercial grade 14-50R. Note there is quite a difference between the NEMA 14-50 and 14-50R. One prevailing theory is 14-50R can endure "regular" pluging in and out. We shall see!

I'm not electrician, so please take my comments with a large bag of salt! But after what I've experienced, my advise is to check and see what socket you have installed.

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[rraustad]

First thing is that these are both 14-50R with the R meaning receptacle. But I do see your point with the R actually stamped on the face of the new one. I'm not sure what that means and hopefully someone can answer that. Second is the 2nd pic shows the difference in the width of the receptacle copper contact that contacts the male spades. Wider is better with contact with the male plug and with heat dissipation. So thanks for posting this, I bought one but haven't installed it yet and now I need to check the one I bought.

 

[Armadillo]

As the previous post pointed out, they are both NEMA 14-50R. The R means receptacle vs a P for plug. The difference is the first Hubbell outlet is their builder's grade/residential version (RR450F). The residential version is fine for intermittent loads like a permanently installed cooking range, but is not upto the task of heavy continuous loads and regular plug insertions. The second is the industrial version (HBL9450L), with bigger contacts and allen key setscrews which help facilitate reaching the torque needed to properly secure the wires in the lugs. Loose connections, on the lug or the contact, will cause heat buildup leading to a meltdown.

 

[Garyl]

The new receptacle is marked with 9450A. That Hubbell part # does correspond to a more robust device.

 

[rraustad]

There is some important information here:

 

[intensifi]

Hardwire. Game over. Full stop. It’s just not worth the risk.

I have installed several of these and other 240V Outlets. An overlooked issue is the torque induced on the connections by the large wires. Unless the wire comes in straight from the back you must cut the wires to different lengths to deal with the torque. For a conduit with separate wires, this is not as big a deal. If you are dealing with Romex it is a PITA to get right. And If you are off by just a little bit, the connection could works it‘s way loose over time even with a torque wrench used to tighten connections to spec.

 

[Wsh68]

Would appreciate some informed opinions. On our vacation house I had a porcelain Hubbell Nema 14-50 installed (Hubbell 9450). I found a handful of them on EBay, old stock still in their boxes, new. It doesn’t appear Hubbell makes these anymore but they’re built like a tank and USA made. i matched them to the correct Hubbell outdoor box and cover HBL7777. Here’s a photograph of the set up. Appreciate input if these are “they don’t make em like they used to..” for good reasons or bad reasons? I was so impressed with their build that I went back and bought the rest of what the guy had I figured I’ll eventually add them to our rental properties for tenants with EVs down the road

 

[Maquis]

First thing is that these are both 14-50R with the R meaning receptacle. But I do see your point with the R actually stamped on the face of the new one. I'm not sure what that means and hopefully someone can answer that. Second is the 2nd pic shows the difference in the width of the receptacle copper contact that contacts the male spades. Wider is better with contact with the male plug and with heat dissipation. So thanks for posting this, I bought one but haven't installed it yet and now I need to check the one I bought.

The copper shown in that picture is the strap that bonds the mounting bracket to the ground pin. It’s not the contact that engages the plug - that’s inside and not visible without disassembly.

 

[Maquis]

Would appreciate some informed opinions. On our vacation house I had a porcelain Hubbell Nema 14-50 installed (Hubbell 9450). I found a handful of them on EBay, old stock still in their boxes, new. It doesn’t appear Hubbell makes these anymore but they’re built like a tank and USA made. i matched them to the correct Hubbell outdoor box and cover HBL7777. Here’s a photograph of the set up. Appreciate input if these are “they don’t make em like they used to..” for good reasons or bad reasons? I was so impressed with their build that I went back and bought the rest of what the guy had I figured I’ll eventually add them to our rental properties for tenants with EVs down the road

I don’t think we can give a definitive answer. Back when those were made, there were no continuous loads that used a 14-50, so there is likely little real-world experience. The good thing is that since they’re porcelain, they can’t melt. Can you post a picture of the wire terminals?

 

[mrau]

The Hubbell 9450a is very good. There is also the Bryant 1450FR receptacle that is made by Hubbell and are practically identical. Often the Bryant can be found for a bit less money.

Both of these receptacles require a faceplate that has the bigger 2.48 inch hole. A basic 14-50 receptacle uses a 2.14 inch hole.

Zoro.com is one source for the wall plates and receptacles.

 

[ZSC100]

In January 2023 (when I took delivery of my Lightning Pro) I had an electrician install what I thought was the more industrial strength Hubbell 14-50. But just a month ago (April 2024), I started having problems charging the vehicle. Turns out one of the issues was this NEMA 1450 plug (on the top). Little did I know that apparently the charger plug was not seated properly and was arcing inside of the socket!

After this event, I am triple determined to have a much more robust connection for the charger. This time I made sure to get a industrial commercial grade 14-50R. Note there is quite a difference between the NEMA 14-50 and 14-50R. One prevailing theory is 14-50R can endure "regular" pluging in and out. We shall see!

I'm not electrician, so please take my comments with a large bag of salt! But after what I've experienced, my advise is to check and see what socket you have installed.

If a NEMA 14-50 receptacle is sold with such rating it can handle 50A for 3hrs or 30hrs. It is correct that not all brands/models are created equal, but there is a reason we have organizations like NEMA and ratings and testing. What if someone leaves their oven on for more than 3hrs by accident or on purpose for a school science project. The NEC has rules like intermittent and continuous for the reason of overkill to statistically overbuilt for small mistakes made by real people, like not doubling over 6AWG wire to make better contact into huge lug sockets, or an under torqued lug as a result of cramming wires in a tiny double gang box. If you(or your electrician) use proper electrical craftsmanship, any NEMA 14-50 plug and 50A breaker can handle 50A continuously.

It never hurts to overkill or go with more expensive (better proven) products. This forum is a great resource for DIYers. I love the ceramic sockets and the spring cover, but that setup is not code for all weather use. The RV hookup boxes with the big hinged cover that sheds water during use is what is best I've found. I've installed dozens of these for friends and family over the years for both RVs and EVs.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/VEVOR-R...r-RV-Camper-Car-DGNRV50A1450RJD0NV0/326874739

 

[WilliamRobert]

If It's the pro charger, not intended to be portable. Hardwire that sucker! If it's not the pro charger get a charger that can be hardwired, I use the ChargePoint home flex hardwired and setup for 48amps. And don't forget to do regular maintenance.

 

[Wsh68]

I don’t think we can give a definitive answer. Back when those were made, there were no continuous loads that used a 14-50, so there is likely little real-world experience. The good thing is that since they’re porcelain, they can’t melt. Can you post a picture of the wire terminals?

I pulled one out of storage and took some pics. I think I’d describe it as “industrial”. It’s heavy duty in weight and in feel.

 

[Maquis]

I pulled one out of storage and took some pics. I think I’d describe it as “industrial”. It’s heavy duty in weight and in feel.

The tangs that receive the plugs are full width. The newer, cheap ones are only half as wide on one side. The terminal screws appear to have saddles to clamp the wires. It appears to be at least as good as what’s available today.

 

[Wsh68]

The tangs that receive the plugs are full width. The newer, cheap ones are only half as wide on one side. The terminal screws appear to have saddles to clamp the wires. It appears to be at least as good as what’s available today.

Thanks for weighing in. For anyone interested, These can still be found on eBay and even here it appears for cheap. https://www.pioneerbreaker.com/product-p/9450.htm
the issue was finding the right cover which was the HBL7777 (not HBL7777A). I think I paid $12/each for the actual outlet and $20 for the cover which is much cheaper than the current industrial grade versions that I think may be a lower build grade. I ended up with four and will find a use for them somewhere down the road. At our main home we have two tesla wall connectors and I have an adapter for my Lightning. I’d like to add these to our rental properties so I can advertise them as EV ready. I agree that hardwiring is best but I’m not ready yet to buy that type of equipment for our rentals when I don’t currently have any tenants that have EV’s.

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