Sponsored

Battery has built-in headroom?

HaroldCal

Well-known member
First Name
Harold
Joined
Sep 19, 2022
Threads
24
Messages
360
Reaction score
485
Location
Las Vegas
Vehicles
2x F150L MY2023 (1 Plat, 1 Lariat)
Occupation
IT
So the latest Munro video mentioned that the ER battery is an actual 144Kwh, while only 131 is available to the user. My math says that's about 10%. So does that mean that Ford built in the extra at the top, the bottom, split between both? And how does this affect the conventional wisdom of not charging to 100%?
Sponsored

 

lancersrock

Well-known member
First Name
Kody
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
390
Reaction score
336
Location
USA - IA
Vehicles
2021 Honda Pilot, 2011 Mustang GT, 2013 fusion se
Occupation
Field Engineer
So the latest Munro video mentioned that the ER battery is an actual 144Kwh, while only 131 is available to the user. My math says that's about 10%. So does that mean that Ford built in the extra at the top, the bottom, split between both? And how does this affect the conventional wisdom of not charging to 100%?
So Ford engineering has seemed a lot less concerned about charging to 100% (as long as it’s being driven) than other manufacturers. Iirc they did something similar in the Mach e, I think it’s so as the battery degrades they can maintain range as the battery ages. But yes the battery is 144kwh.
 

sotek2345

Well-known member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Threads
30
Messages
3,668
Reaction score
4,289
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicles
2022 Lightning Lariat ER, 2021 Mach-e GT
Occupation
Engineering Manager
This is a very similar strategy to the Mach-e. I still wouldn't charge to 100% every day, but I also don't worry about doing it before a long drive. I use 90% for my daily charge limit.
 

MickeyAO

Well-known member
First Name
Mickey
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
25
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
2,014
Location
San Antonio Tx
Vehicles
Rapid Red Lightning Lariat ER, Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD
Occupation
Retired Lab Manager of the Energy Storage Technology Center
The headroom is built in to protect from warranty replacements, so even if you abuse the cells by charging to 100% every time, you will still retain 70% of capacity by the end of the warranty period.

I charge to 85% on a daily bases, and my wife's Kia EV6 charges to 80% (it only goes in 10% increments)

If you disagree with this, you might want to check out what I do for my day job.
 

Sponsored

GDN

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Feb 15, 2022
Threads
84
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
3,859
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
Lightning Lariat ER, Performance Y
Occupation
IT
Ford is hiding that extra to protect themselves, but you can be assured you paid for it. Just shows they don't trust their consumers to learn about or understand the EV battery.
 

BennyTheBeaver

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Threads
43
Messages
2,107
Reaction score
2,271
Location
PNW
Vehicles
2023 Lightning XLT ER
I wonder if there is a Forscan setting that would allow us to tap into some of the headroom?
 

GDN

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Feb 15, 2022
Threads
84
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
3,859
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
Lightning Lariat ER, Performance Y
Occupation
IT
I wonder if there is a Forscan setting that would allow us to tap into some of the headroom?
That is tightly tucked away by engineering I'm quite sure.
 

sotek2345

Well-known member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Threads
30
Messages
3,668
Reaction score
4,289
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicles
2022 Lightning Lariat ER, 2021 Mach-e GT
Occupation
Engineering Manager
Ford is hiding that extra to protect themselves, but you can be assured you paid for it. Just shows they don't trust their consumers to learn about or understand the EV battery.
Given how many people treat their car, Ford is right.
 

GDN

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Feb 15, 2022
Threads
84
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
3,859
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
Lightning Lariat ER, Performance Y
Occupation
IT
Given how many people treat their car, Ford is right.
I'd rather buy stock for my investment. Millions of Tesla owners seem to get the hang of it.
 

Sponsored

sotek2345

Well-known member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Threads
30
Messages
3,668
Reaction score
4,289
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicles
2022 Lightning Lariat ER, 2021 Mach-e GT
Occupation
Engineering Manager
I'd rather buy stock for my investment. Millions of Tesla owners seem to get the hang of it.
Tesla also locks out a portion of their battery from use, they are just less conservative than Ford.
 

F-150 Prius

Well-known member
First Name
Adam
Joined
May 12, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
551
Reaction score
184
Location
Silicon Valley
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Platinum PowerBoost FX-4 6½
Occupation
Software Algorithms
The "available" kWh is based on the balanced voltage of all cells in the pack. Manufacturers report battery capacity in different ways. The Munro number is a head count of cells and the only way to spec a pack … that manufacturers "advertise" other numbers is sales and marketing. Tesla unfortunately decides people were just not able to think (much at all) let alone understand that 100 does not mean 100.00 kWh all the time, every time. Rather like people buying a 2x4 stick of lumber and then squealing "oh my lord, this piece of wood is 2.0 inches by 4.0 inches by 8.0 feet! … my house fell over!"

It's impossible to discharge a lithium chemistry below a certain voltage (depending upon the chemistry … I don't purport to have a table of all these numbers memorized, I'd just google it and compare nmc with lfp, etc.) and impossible to charge above a certain voltage … approaching those limits defines the performance envelope of the pack (complicated by ambient temperature and cooling system performance.)

While "confidence" in longevity and degradation has improved (a lot) since the early days, it's still the fact of the matter that rapid DC fast charging, charging above about 70%, discharging below about 10% contribute to accelerated degradation.

Personally, I'd like a button on the touchscreen to say "forget the warranty, I want fast charging right now at 85% to 95% and that's on me" then the vehicle records the event, a subsequent buyer can look at the battery health history, the manufacturer can look at the vehicle logs, etc. Just like buying a performance ICE, the health of the engine and transmission can be determined … over-rev counts, compression, leak-down, oil analysis, etc.
 

shutterbug

Well-known member
First Name
Joseph
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
1,242
Reaction score
1,221
Location
Phoenix
Vehicles
MME GB FE—Dead. F150L Lariat SR. MME Rally.
So the latest Munro video mentioned that the ER battery is an actual 144Kwh, while only 131 is available to the user. My math says that's about 10%. So does that mean that Ford built in the extra at the top, the bottom, split between both? And how does this affect the conventional wisdom of not charging to 100%?
It isn't "conventional" wisdom. It's what Ford manual recommends.
 
OP
OP
HaroldCal

HaroldCal

Well-known member
First Name
Harold
Joined
Sep 19, 2022
Threads
24
Messages
360
Reaction score
485
Location
Las Vegas
Vehicles
2x F150L MY2023 (1 Plat, 1 Lariat)
Occupation
IT
It isn't "conventional" wisdom. It's what Ford manual recommends.
It *IS* conventional wisdom. It is ALSO what the Ford manual recommends.

;)
 
 





Top