Battery Preconditioning.

[TMND]

but Ford has chosen this route to prevent less than smart people from over loading a circuit.

Ummmmm…..Isn’t that what breakers already do?

not saying that isn’t what Ford did but come on Ford. Let us use a 20 amp outlet at capacity !

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[TaxmanHog]

Ummmmm…..Isn’t that what breakers already do?

not saying that isn’t what Ford did but come on Ford. Let us use a 20 amp outlet at capacity !

Lowest common denominator is the issue, 15a & 20a outlets accommodate the same 120v plug, designing an EVSE with 16 amps (80% of 20a) would overtax the 15a circuit, hence the derated capacity to lowest safe value. Even some "smart" people get themselves into trouble!

 

[rikster63]

Just FYI, charging to 90% is actually charging to 80% for battery health purposes. So keep it charged to 90%. The reason is the battery is actually a 145 kwh battery and downrated to 131

That's an interesting thought I hadn't considered! I know many people are a bit paranoid about charging to over 80%, but in the winter it definitely helps to go to 90% daily. I see your point, and that might easy my mind (and others' minds) to know they likely won't do any harm charging to 90% daily in the winter!

 

[luebri]

Lowest common denominator is the issue, 15a & 20a outlets accommodate the same 120v plug, designing an EVSE with 16 amps (80% of 20a) would overtax the 15a circuit, hence the derated capacity to lowest safe value. Even some "smart" people get themselves into trouble!

In my opinion Ford should handle this the way Tesla handles 20a (16a charging) with the 5-20 dongle. From my standpoint it is no different than a user knowing that the various types of 240v outlets and the associated wiring is sized correctly for the demand.

 

[TaxmanHog]

In my opinion Ford should handle this the way Tesla handles 20a (16a charging) with the 5-20 dongle. From my standpoint it is no different than a user knowing that the various types of 240v outlets and the associated wiring is sized correctly for the demand.

Not so common in old construction, they defaulted to the LCD.

But, OK, provide it as an optional dongle and adjust the programming on the EVSE to signal the truck of the slight increased capacity.

 

[carys98]

Keep in mind that not all of the power being delivered to the truck is going to the battery. Multiple modules have to be active whenever the truck is charging or preconditioning. From what I’ve seen the modules draw about 400W so about 1/4 of the power is lost to overhead on L1. On top of that there are also some efficiency losses so only about 1 kW is actually making it to the battery. Trying to heat up about a thousand pounds of battery with a 1 kW heater seems like a waste of time. It would basically be the same as crawling under the truck with a blow dryer.

 

[TaxmanHog]

We need 40 amps @ 240 volts to get the maximum potential heating throughput of the PTC 9.6 KW

 

[luebri]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/ideal-charging-practices.14066/post-294637

From what I’ve seen the modules draw about 400W so about 1/4 of the power is lost to overhead on L1.

Not correct from my testing. In the test I linked above my 120v charger showed 12.55 kwh used. The truck received 10.98 kwh by truck. 1.57 kwh lost, 12.51% loss over a 9 hour period.

If there truly was 400w draw loss simply for "overhead" over a 9 hour period that would be 3.6 kwh lost. Which was not the case.

Zero, it does zero warming.

Not correct from my testing. (link above) 120v does provide some warming, just highly unlikely to get you close to fully precondition temp of 60F in any cold or frigid conditions. My testing linked above showed an increase from ~42F to to ~54F over a 9-hour period of 120v charging.

 

[carys98]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/ideal-charging-practices.14066/post-294637


Not correct from my testing. In the test I linked above my 120v charger showed 12.55 kwh used. The truck received 10.98 kwh by truck. 1.57 kwh lost, 12.51% loss over a 9 hour period.

If there truly was 400w draw loss simply for "overhead" over a 9 hour period that would be 3.6 kwh lost. Which was not the case.

My number is probably high since any testing I did was done when my garage was warm and charging at 11kW. It probably included some power to run cooling. I still find it hard to believe that 1.57 kWh can raise the temperature of something as massive as a Lightning battery 12 degrees.

 

[luebri]

My number is probably high since any testing I did was done when my garage was warm and charging at 11kW. It probably included some power to run cooling. I still find it hard to believe that 1.57 kWh can raise the temperature of something as massive as a Lightning battery 12 degrees.

12.55 kwh was used, 10.98 received. 1.57 lost.

Charging inherently raises temp in cold conditions. It's not a sum zero equation that a kwh is either used for heating or used for charging. It can be both.

 

[Firn]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/ideal-charging-practices.14066/post-294637


Not correct from my testing. In the test I linked above my 120v charger showed 12.55 kwh used. The truck received 10.98 kwh by truck. 1.57 kwh lost, 12.51% loss over a 9 hour period.

If there truly was 400w draw loss simply for "overhead" over a 9 hour period that would be 3.6 kwh lost. Which was not the case.


Not correct from my testing. (link above) 120v does provide some warming, just highly unlikely to get you close to fully precondition temp of 60F in any cold or frigid conditions. My testing linked above showed an increase from ~42F to to ~54F over a 9-hour period of 120v charging.

When I was monitoring with car scanner it was drawing about 1350w on 120v, of that the battery was receiving about 1000w.
I will admit that on my 240v charger I hear the cooling system start and stop, I don't remember what 120v was doing. It's possible the cooling system engages and disengage so I was seeing less to the battery than is the average.

In my opinion Ford should handle this the way Tesla handles 20a (16a charging) with the 5-20 dongle. From my standpoint it is no different than a user knowing that the various types of 240v outlets and the associated wiring is sized correctly for the demand.

The worst part, I believe it already has the bits to do so. It changes to 12a based on the end, not the voltage. I believe it changes based upon the Lightning end vs the Mach-e end. And the "same" charger for the Lyric can use a TT-30 end to change for 30a 120v.

Disappointing that Ford didn't push webasto to give the full adjustable charge capability

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I just got in, from an hour drive at moderate speeds (not highway) and plugged in the L2 charger to the truck - this is held to a 24A current (to suit the other EV ) 240V. The truck is programmed to charge up the battery to 90% starting at 11:00 PM tonight, and the departure time is 7:20AM tomorrow, so right now at 6:00PM the FordPass shows: " <1kW "
Checking my energy monitor in the shop that supplies the EV charger {Grizzl-E Charger check these out !} The energy monitor is showing 815 watts on that circuit.
So just to be sure, I clamped the power cable with a meter and it is showing 3.4 Amps, the voltage is 239 V per the meter.
239V x 3.4 A = 812.6 Watts - seems to check out.

This is just one moment in time though, I am not sure if the EV charging is cycling current or drawing this steady. Temperature outside is currently -12C (10F) I will check again in about an hour.

 

[carys98]

12.55 kwh was used, 10.98 received. 1.57 lost.

Charging inherently raises temp in cold conditions. It's not a sum zero equation that a kwh is either used for heating or used for charging. It can be both.

You can’t use a kWh to produce heat and then store that same kWh in the battery. Once it becomes heat it is wasted. That’s basic thermodynamics.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Trying to heat up about a thousand pounds of battery with a 1 kW heater seems like a waste of time.

Its not so much the weight of the battery as the surface area for the heat loss. With a heat pump 1kW of input can be 3kW of heating potential depending on conditions.
I don't know the efficiency of the truck system, but my home Heat pump runs to -27 C (more efficient at - 15 though)

 

[TMND]

One KWH is just a measure of energy used. He’s implying that it could be charging and heating at the same time I would guess.

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