BYD announces 1000V battery, 5 min to charge

[Newton]

What are you talking about? I don’t understand why you think that 40A power stations would ”stress the grid”, unless the grid is a campground.

Our houses used to be filled with 150 watt light bulbs and resistive electric heaters.

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[Tony Burgh]

Charging at 10C....I hope the battery tech can handle that. Current tech would crumple in a couple years at that rate.

Recall what the Japanese did to American automotive technology to displace the Big 3. In most cases, the science provides the basis but Engineering makes it work and optimizes the technology.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Where do you live? I don’t understand why you think that 40A power stations would ”stress the grid”, unless the grid is a campground.

I agree. Generators produce power.
The power (kWh) required per vehicle changes little. The pressure (V) can be changed on site with robust transformers. Or build charging stations near step down transformers and feed higher voltage. Amps change accordingly.
Political beliefs cannot stop technology. Slow it? Yes, for a little while.

 

[Firn]

Ok, so where is all this nuclear power suppose to come from?
Right now drawing 40 amps level 2 is a stress on our grid here locally with approx 6 homes on a single transformer.

I don't even bother selling tankless electric water heaters as they tend to require 6-60 amp breakers. Not going to happen without major infrastructure upgrades. Now try getting all this extra power needed to make commercial locations work. There is a 16 stall supercharger location in my neighborhood that's been waiting over 2 years to get the go ahead to cut up the street and run 1/4 mile to a DWP substation.

Rick

Where are you getting this stuff?

SIX 60 amp breakers? Your tankless water heaters are using 86 THOUSAND watts? My tanked water heater pulls 8kw, I can guarantee a tankless isn't pulling ten times that. The largest one I quickly found on Home Depot was 36kw, and that will support THREE simultaneous showers. Heck, that's a 400a service just for the water heater, most homes have both water heaters AND hvac on 200a service.

You cant handle 40a? A regular water heater pulls around that. Are you saying your neighborhood cannot handle more than a couple houses running the clothes dryer at the same time? Let alone the A/C and the dryer?

Not only that power PRODUCTION and power DISTRIBUTION are two very different things. CA has their issues, but you cannot tell me that with all the businesses and air conditioners running during the day that it cannot handle charging at night when none of those demands are there. Yes, I know CA went heavily into solar, but that's not the ONLY thing it has. Nor is nuclear the only possible option here, even if you ignore pumped hydro, tidal, and wind a modern natural gas power plant is almost 400% more efficient than a gasoline engine, AND it runs that way ALL the time.

 

[hturnerfamily]

if and when we get a true 1,000kw DCFC, or 1,000v, whichever they are alluding to...

and if and when we get a true vehicle that can handle that 1,000kw or 1,000v DCFC charging speed...

and if and when the weather and other factors are 'aligned', at the moment of charging...

...yes, we're all excited about this possibility...


in five years, I'll circle around and see

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Where are you getting this stuff?

SIX 60 amp breakers? Your tankless water heaters are using 86 THOUSAND watts? My tanked water heater pulls 8kw, I can guarantee a tankless isn't pulling ten times that. The largest one I quickly found on Home Depot was 36kw, and that will support THREE simultaneous showers. Heck, that's a 400a service just for the water heater, most homes have both water heaters AND hvac on 200a service.

You cant handle 40a? A regular water heater pulls around that. Are you saying your neighborhood cannot handle more than a couple houses running the clothes dryer at the same time? Let alone the A/C and the dryer?

Not only that power PRODUCTION and power DISTRIBUTION are two very different things. CA has their issues, but you cannot tell me that with all the businesses and air conditioners running during the day that it cannot handle charging at night when none of those demands are there. Yes, I know CA went heavily into solar, but that's not the ONLY thing it has. Nor is nuclear the only possible option here, even if you ignore pumped hydro, tidal, and wind a modern natural gas power plant is almost 400% more efficient than a gasoline engine, AND it runs that way ALL the time.

Glad your day job is not a plumber or an electrician.
36kw ÷ 240volts = 150 amp. There are 3 small heating tanks inside the tankless to make them work..150 ÷3 is 50 amps per tank..x. the 80% rule comes out to 60 amps per mini tank.. that's 6 - 60 amp breakers.

Did you actually compare your level.2 charger that's 9.6 kw drawing 40 amps using 2-50 amp breakers.. 80% rule.

Tankless electric are not typical when a home was piped for gas.. unfortunately we are no longer allowed gas in new construction. Therefore between all the electric vehicles, and modern Air conditioning now used in neighborhoods that date from the early 1900's to modern. These are not new developments, these are exisiting homes being upgraded or torn down and rebuilt with exisiting infrastructure.

49 years in the plumbing business, I've stumbled across a few tankless whole house heaters that were just for 1 bathroom homes.

Electric tank 40-80 gallon water heaters are 4500 watts x 2 elements with only 1 element firing at a time.
New hybrid electric tanks are also 4500 watt elements and a small heat pump running too.
My brother in law just installed a 400 amp service due to all his solar and an adu that was just added. Took months to get the panel. House is 200, adu is 200 sharing the same main and meter.

Typical modern homes are 200- 225 amp panels. Older are 100 amps. Barley enough for a level 2 charger.

Rick

 

[Firn]

Glad your day job is not a plumber or an electrician.
36kw ÷ 240volts = 150 amp. There are 3 small heating tanks inside the tankless to make them work..150 ÷3 is 50 amps per tank..x. the 80% rule comes out to 60 amps per mini tank.. that's 6 - 60 amp breakers.

Did you actually compare your level.2 charger that's 9.6 kw drawing 40 amps using 2-50 amp breakers.. 80% rule.

Tankless electric are not typical when a home was piped for gas.. unfortunately we are no longer allowed gas in new construction. Therefore between all the electric vehicles, and modern Air conditioning now used in neighborhoods that date from the early 1900's to modern. These are not new developments, these are exisiting homes being upgraded or torn down and rebuilt with exisiting infrastructure.

49 years in the plumbing business, I've stumbled across a few tankless whole house heaters that were just for 1 bathroom homes.

Electric tank 40-80 gallon water heaters are 4500 watts x 2 elements with only 1 element firing at a time.
New hybrid electric tanks are also 4500 watt elements and a small heat pump running too.
My brother in law just installed a 400 amp service due to all his solar and an adu that was just added. Took months to get the panel. House is 200, adu is 200 sharing the same main and meter.

Typical modern homes are 200- 225 amp panels. Older are 100 amps. Barley enough for a level 2 charger.

Rick

Are you trying to use some specific nomenclature here, because the use of 6-60 implies the use of SIX individual Sixty Amp breakers if you are not specifying the terms you are using. You do not need 360amps (six, 60amp breakers) to feed a 150amp water heater. Regardless, yet again, a 36kw tankless will run three concurrent hot showers and is over three times as much power as the current Lightning can absorb. MUCH smaller tankless systems are far more common, that was the HIGHEST one I could find and was still less than half of your claim.

Yes, you have to use a 50amp breaker, that is NOT a 50A draw however. And again, that's no TWO, 50A (2-50) breakers as your phrasing implies.

You don't rebuild a home using the old infrastructure of the home, you certainly don't tear one down and still use it, and non-development early 1900s homes are DECIDELY a very SMALL portion of overall housing. Not only that they are very much a very minor portion of the overall load on the grid.
If your argument is to provide one specific and non-typical example than fine, but its rather disingenuous to cherry pick like that.

The ability of a home or an individual panel is a completely different argument than 16 super chargers and still a very different argument than the greater infrastructure feeding the homes, and I point out that you were talking the greater grid, not the homes. If you are changing your argument fine, but don't conflate the issue by mixing them.

 

[flyct]

Ok, so where is all this nuclear power suppose to come from?
Right now drawing 40 amps level 2 is a stress on our grid here locally with approx 6 homes on a single transformer.

I don't even bother selling tankless electric water heaters as they tend to require 6-60 amp breakers. Not going to happen without major infrastructure upgrades. Now try getting all this extra power needed to make commercial locations work. There is a 16 stall supercharger location in my neighborhood that's been waiting over 2 years to get the go ahead to cut up the street and run 1/4 mile to a DWP substation.

Rick

Rick,

Charge times will reduce the need for multiple charge stalls at a site. If EVs can accept charge 5x the rate of a current EV fast charger then the need for vacant stall is reduced 5X. It doesn't change the kWhs EVs used and DC chargers need to deliver daily.

 

[Albern]

So how does this BYD solution compare to MCS and is it market-ready?

MCS has max voltage and current of 1,250V and 3,000A respectively with a designed output of 3.75MW.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Are you trying to use some specific nomenclature here, because the use of 6-60 implies the use of SIX individual Sixty Amp breakers if you are not specifying the terms you are using. You do not need 360amps (six, 60amp breakers) to feed a 150amp water heater. Regardless, yet again, a 36kw tankless will run three concurrent hot showers and is over three times as much power as the current Lightning can absorb. MUCH smaller tankless systems are far more common, that was the HIGHEST one I could find and was still less than half of your claim.

Yes, you have to use a 50amp breaker, that is NOT a 50A draw however. And again, that's no TWO, 50A (2-50) breakers as your phrasing implies.

You don't rebuild a home using the old infrastructure of the home, you certainly don't tear one down and still use it, and non-development early 1900s homes are DECIDELY a very SMALL portion of overall housing. Not only that they are very much a very minor portion of the overall load on the grid.
If your argument is to provide one specific and non-typical example than fine, but its rather disingenuous to cherry pick like that.

The ability of a home or an individual panel is a completely different argument than 16 super chargers and still a very different argument than the greater infrastructure feeding the homes, and I point out that you were talking the greater grid, not the homes. If you are changing your argument fine, but don't conflate the issue by mixing them.

Once again you're completely wrong. I've been in the plumbing trades for 49 years. I can count on 1 hand the amount of whole house electric tankless heaters I've come across. Reason being is it would take a dedicated 150 service just for the tankless. Very rare to see a 400 amp panel, unless I'm at a home with a real hydraulic elevator which I do see on occasion.

When we tear down homes from the early 1900-1980's and build new, of course we have completely new panels. But Ladwp , Los Angeles department of water and power doesn't replace transformer on the pole that typically service 6 homes. There was a home in the neighborhood that spent 1 millon just to eliminate the overhead wires going across his rear view. But when you build a 25,000 square foot home, it's a drop in the bucket. Yes, his home has an electrical vault because of the size of the home and underground service. But the majority of the homes are overhead wires and 1 transformer for 6 homes. These homes originally didn't have car chargers, Air conditioning and anything built now in the last 3 years is all electric. No gas. Dwp is not upgrading the transformers just because we have electric cars. But if 1 was stupid enough to attempt to install an all electric tankless heater, they will be paying for the upgraded service, just like we pay for upgraded water meters above 1".

Gas tankless are typically 199,000 btu's where a tank heater is 34,000-40,000 and up to 75,000 on a larger 75 gallon heater.

A 36kw tankless water heater in a warm climate zone will only deliver 5.1 gpm. While in a cold climate only 3 gpm. A gas tankless will deliver up to 11 gpm which sometimes is not enough for homes I work on and require 2 gas tankless heater.

As you can see just from a typical Rheem heater, 36kw is a 150 amp draw, asking for 4 sets of twin 40 amp breakers. And a minimum of a 300 amp panel. Maybe out on a farm with 3 phase it might work, but residencial homes in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica where I've worked the last 49 years, it's not happening. We use gas tanks, gas tankless or electric tank heaters . Not electric tankless. But that's all changing to electric. And the electric heater of choice is an electric tank hybrid heater. 4.5kw with a heat pump booster that brings the efficiency to 5x that of a gas heater.

So once again, California has 1 active nuclear power plant (Diablo Canyon) and 1 that is being decommissioned. (San Onofre) Most of our power plants use natural gas with steam turbines to provide power. With a population of 4 million just in the city of LA, and LA the capital of electric vehicles, (293,000) I don't see how we can continue to build out high power super chargers without upgrading our infrastructure. Especially since everything is going electric and not natural gas anymore.

Rick

 

[Firn]

Once again you're completely wrong. I've been in the plumbing trades for 49 years. I can count on 1 hand the amount of whole house electric tankless heaters I've come across. Reason being is it would take a dedicated 150 service just for the tankless. Very rare to see a 400 amp panel, unless I'm at a home with a real hydraulic elevator which I do see on occasion.

When we tear down homes from the early 1900-1980's and build new, of course we have completely new panels. But Ladwp , Los Angeles department of water and power doesn't replace transformer on the pole that typically service 6 homes. There was a home in the neighborhood that spent 1 millon just to eliminate the overhead wires going across his rear view. But when you build a 25,000 square foot home, it's a drop in the bucket. Yes, his home has an electrical vault because of the size of the home and underground service. But the majority of the homes are overhead wires and 1 transformer for 6 homes. These homes originally didn't have car chargers, Air conditioning and anything built now in the last 3 years is all electric. No gas. Dwp is not upgrading the transformers just because we have electric cars. But if 1 was stupid enough to attempt to install an all electric tankless heater, they will be paying for the upgraded service, just like we pay for upgraded water meters above 1".

Gas tankless are typically 199,000 btu's where a tank heater is 34,000-40,000 and up to 75,000 on a larger 75 gallon heater.

A 36kw tankless water heater in a warm climate zone will only deliver 5.1 gpm. While in a cold climate only 3 gpm. A gas tankless will deliver up to 11 gpm which sometimes is not enough for homes I work on and require 2 gas tankless heater.

As you can see just from a typical Rheem heater, 36kw is a 150 amp draw, asking for 4 sets of twin 40 amp breakers. And a minimum of a 300 amp panel. Maybe out on a farm with 3 phase it might work, but residencial homes in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica where I've worked the last 49 years, it's not happening. We use gas tanks, gas tankless or electric tank heaters . Not electric tankless. But that's all changing to electric. And the electric heater of choice is an electric tank hybrid heater. 4.5kw with a heat pump booster that brings the efficiency to 5x that of a gas heater.

So once again, California has 1 active nuclear power plant (Diablo Canyon) and 1 that is being decommissioned. (San Onofre) Most of our power plants use natural gas with steam turbines to provide power. With a population of 4 million just in the city of LA, and LA the capital of electric vehicles, (293,000) I don't see how we can continue to build out high power super chargers without upgrading our infrastructure. Especially since everything is going electric and not natural gas anymore.

Rick

OK, uh, great. Regardless a thankless doesn't take 86 THOUSAND watts, like you claimed. Nor does some rambling statement about the fact of gas and electric tank less water heaters support your argument that the power grid cannot support electric cars. Nor is California the rest of the world. Nor is the decommissioning of a nuclear reactor a statement as to the ability to provide power.

Beyond that the fact that you "cannot see how" the grid is being upgraded does not in fact mean the grid is not being upgraded.

At the end of the day you start your statement with a pedantic and condescending remark, and if that is the best argument you can put forward you really don't have much of an argument. Now I could continue to point out the inaccuracies in your statements but since this has turned into some rambling mishmash it would serve no purpose and continue to be beyond the point. At the end of the day having done plumbing in no way informs you as to the macro level discussion as to the state of the US power grid. And as you open admit, you "don't see" a lot, including what is happening to the grid.

At the end of the day we will just continue with the fact you thought a tankless water heater for the average house needed SIX, 60a breakers, and recognize the rest of your argument is as well informed as that.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Inside EVs take on the BYD 1 MW charger and vehicles that will support it (pretty amazing HP and top speeds): BYD's New 'Megawatt' EV Charging Is So Fast It Makes Gas Irrelevant

The article briefly touches on the special charging infrastructure necessary to support a 1 MW charger (perhaps a bevy of them).

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Are you trying to use some specific nomenclature here, because the use of 6-60 implies the use of SIX individual Sixty Amp breakers if you are not specifying the terms you are using. You do not need 360amps (six, 60amp breakers) to feed a 150amp water heater. Regardless, yet again, a 36kw tankless will run three concurrent hot showers and is over three times as much power as the current Lightning can absorb. MUCH smaller tankless systems are far more common, that was the HIGHEST one I could find and was still less than half of your claim.

Yes, you have to use a 50amp breaker, that is NOT a 50A draw however. And again, that's no TWO, 50A (2-50) breakers as your phrasing implies.

You don't rebuild a home using the old infrastructure of the home, you certainly don't tear one down and still use it, and non-development early 1900s homes are DECIDELY a very SMALL portion of overall housing. Not only that they are very much a very minor portion of the overall load on the grid.
If your argument is to provide one specific and non-typical example than fine, but its rather disingenuous to cherry pick like that.

The ability of a home or an individual panel is a completely different argument than 16 super chargers and still a very different argument than the greater infrastructure feeding the homes, and I point out that you were talking the greater grid, not the homes. If you are changing your argument fine, but don't conflate the issue by mixing them.

Once again you're completely wrong. I've been in the plumbing trades for 49 years. I can count on 1 hand the amount of whole house electric tankless heaters I've come across. Reason being is it would take a dedicated 150 service just for the tankless. Very rare to see a 400 amp panel, unless I'm at a home with a real hydraulic elevator which I do see on occasion.

When we tear down homes from the early 1900-1980's and build new, of course we have completely new panels. But Ladwp , Los Angeles department of water and power doesn't replace transformer on the pole that typically service 6 homes. There was a home in the neighborhood that spent 1 millon just to eliminate the overhead wires going across his rear view. But when you build a 25,000 square foot home, it's a drop in the bucket. Yes, his home has an electrical vault because of the size of the home and underground service. But the majority of the homes are overhead wires and 1 transformer for 6 homes. These homes originally didn't have car chargers, Air conditioning and anything built now in the last 3 years is all electric. No gas. Dwp is not upgrading the transformers just because we have electric cars. But if 1 was stupid enough to attempt to install an all electric tankless heater, they will be paying for the upgraded service, just loke we pay for upgraded water meters above 1".

Gas tankless are typically 199,000 btu's where a tank heater is 34,000-40,000 and upto to 75,000 on a larger 75 gallon heater.

Rick,

Charge times will reduce the need for multiple charge stalls at a site. If EVs can accept charge 5x the rate of a current EV fast charger then the need for vacant stall is reduced 5X. It doesn't change the kWhs EVs used and DC chargers need to deliver daily.

Right now there is a Tesla supercharger location within 1.2 miles of me with 44 250kwh chargers. And even a larger one 4.3 miles away with 62 , 250kw chargers. Not uncommon to see it running 90% full.

The costco in my area is the busiest one outside of Hawaii. With more than 20 pumps and typically 5 cars deep. 4 tanker trucks a day to keep it supplied.

Now imagine if they build out a BYD charge station at that Costco. People will still be lined up for the 5 minute refill. Where will all that power come from? Still will be a line as we have more electric cars in LA than anywhere else in the country.

Rick

OK, uh, great. Regardless a thankless doesn't take 86 THOUSAND watts, like you claimed. Nor does some rambling statement about the fact of gas and electric tank less water heaters support your argument that the power grid cannot support electric cars. Nor is California the rest of the world. Nor is the decommissioning of a nuclear reactor a statement as to the ability to provide power.

Beyond that the fact that you "cannot see how" the grid is being upgraded does not in fact mean the grid is not being upgraded.

At the end of the day you start your statement with a pedantic and condescending remark, and if that is the best argument you can put forward you really don't have much of an argument. Now I could continue to point out the inaccuracies in your statements but since this has turned into some rambling mishmash it would serve no purpose and continue to be beyond the point. At the end of the day having done plumbing in no way informs you as to the macro level discussion as to the state of the US power grid. And as you open admit, you "don't see" a lot, including what is happening to the grid.

At the end of the day we will just continue with the fact you thought a tankless water heater for the average house needed SIX, 60a breakers, and recognize the rest of your argument is as well informed as that.

Please show me where I said an electric tankless uses 86,000 watts. I said 36,000 watts. Might want to check your eye prescription
You're either clueless or don't know the first thing about electricity. I always stated 6 -60 amp breakers to feed a 150 amp load. Using the 80% rule as required. You do realize 2 breakers make a 240 volt circuit. Some heaters use 3 heating cans some use 4. Either way it's still equates to 4x40= 160 amps which Rheem is actually wrong since the load is stated at 150 amps. or 3x60-180 amps worth of breakers which is my original statement which accounts for the 80% max load factor.
Just like my level 2 charger is a double 50 amp breaker to power a 40 amp load to produce 9.6kw.
Now were talkling 36kw. Almost 4 times the load of a 40 amp charger just to produce 5.1 gallons of water in a warm climate or 3 in a cold climate. Not sure how you bathe or shower. But neither 1 will work for my customers. That's why nobody uses them out here. That's why the newest craze is hybrid electric tank heaters. Not tankless electric.

Sure hope you don't play electrician or plumber. And especially not a mathematician.
Not going to continue wasting my time until you read correctly, use a calculator or understand plumbing and electrical. It's been fun, but honestly, I have billing to do, not teaching plumbing and electrical 101.

Rick

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