Charging Cable from Charge Station Pro to Lariat ER

[metroshot]

I currently drive a PHEV and the 15A L2 charger takes about 2 hours daily.
The Lightning with a 32A mobile charger will be fine with my truck as I don't drive much and will only top off.
The good side is that since the 32A Ford charger is a J1772, my PHEV can also use it.

Now I just have to find out how much to upgrade a 20A 240V sub panel to 50A.
Hoping it's just the breaker...

BTW: I don't believe in charging at high rates due to lower lifecyle & heating of the batteries.
Of all the years I have dealt with: Lead acid, NiCd, NiMh, Lithium rechargeables = lower charge rates equal longer life spans.

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[Tony Burgh]

And? If you're someone who actually needs 80A (or just wants it), that's how you get it today without the extra pins on the Ford Pro charger. I don't agree with the desire to avoid this, but there aren't exactly a lot of 80A options out there given so few vehicles that can utilize it.



Do you actually need 80A? I originally wanted to go 80A when I bought my Model 3, but at the time (early 2020) it seemed like the industry trend was towards lower input chargers, not higher. Older Teslas could utilize more than 48A (72A on triple charger S/X IIRC) but newer ones are 48A just like the 3/Y.

Now with over two years of home charging experience and with BEV trucks becoming a reality I am re-visiting this decision. At around half the efficiency of my 3 I can see potential for a couple days per year where I would not be able to be fully charged by the next morning.

The other factor to consider depending on your local provider is how wide your off peak hours are. Here in NJ, PSE&G RLM off-peak hours are only 10h per weeknight. It would not be possible to fully recharge an extended range Lightning on 48A if you only had 10 hours to do it. If you happen to get home late with a nearly empty battery you might only be 50% charged by morning if you want to use only off-peak power.

When 200 kwh pack trucks start running around 48A is going to be really inadequate. Lightning is IMO right on the edge of what can be done with just 48A.

I think you have put justification to my choice. If I run new wires (6 feet from center of circuit breaker box to evse) for 100@ service now, I’m kind of future-proofed.

 

[Viper GTS]

I currently drive a PHEV and the 15A L2 charger takes about 2 hours daily.
The Lightning with a 32A mobile charger will be fine with my truck as I don't drive much and will only top off.
The good side is that since the 32A Ford charger is a J1772, my PHEV can also use it.

Now I just have to find out how much to upgrade a 20A 240V sub panel to 50A.
Hoping it's just the breaker...

BTW: I don't believe in charging at high rates due to lower lifecyle & heating of the batteries.
Of all the years I have dealt with: Lead acid, NiCd, NiMh, Lithium rechargeables = lower charge rates equal longer life spans.

Given these gigantic batteries are capable of taking hundreds of KW via DCFC I don't think 11.5 (or even lower) vs 19.2 KW charging are going to make a big difference. The ability to take (and output) power scales with battery size, I'd have zero qualms about regularly using 19.2KW on a 130+ KWH battery.

 

[Maquis]

I’m set up for 48@ evse with 60@ breaker, 2-4awg conductors, 10awg bare ground and a manual disconnect. But I’m greedy and want 80@ charging capacity.
My 150@ service may not support 80@ charging. But the Pro can be dialed down to 48@ charging.
I’m just whining about two extra conductors in the Pro cable that I don’t need. (Currently, npi).

#4 could handle an 80A breaker and a charger setting up to 64A, but you would need a #8 EGC.

 

[jefro]

" upgrade a 20A 240V sub panel to 50A.
Hoping it's just the breaker. "

About a ZERO chance of that.

 

[beatle]

And? If you're someone who actually needs 80A (or just wants it), that's how you get it today without the extra pins on the Ford Pro charger. I don't agree with the desire to avoid this, but there aren't exactly a lot of 80A options out there given so few vehicles that can utilize it.



Do you actually need 80A? I originally wanted to go 80A when I bought my Model 3, but at the time (early 2020) it seemed like the industry trend was towards lower input chargers, not higher. Older Teslas could utilize more than 48A (72A on triple charger S/X IIRC) but newer ones are 48A just like the 3/Y.

Now with over two years of home charging experience and with BEV trucks becoming a reality I am re-visiting this decision. At around half the efficiency of my 3 I can see potential for a couple days per year where I would not be able to be fully charged by the next morning.

The other factor to consider depending on your local provider is how wide your off peak hours are. Here in NJ, PSE&G RLM off-peak hours are only 10h per weeknight. It would not be possible to fully recharge an extended range Lightning on 48A if you only had 10 hours to do it. If you happen to get home late with a nearly empty battery you might only be 50% charged by morning if you want to use only off-peak power.

When 200 kwh pack trucks start running around 48A is going to be really inadequate. Lightning is IMO right on the edge of what can be done with just 48A.

These were thoughts going through my head as well. I charge my Model S @ 40A and it is plenty fast. I get a little more than 11% an hour so even charging from 10-90% (I did this on Saturday) it takes just under 7 hours, no biggie.

That said, the usable capacity of my current car is only a little more than half of the ER Lightning, and I will hopefully be getting a smart meter later this year where TOU rates will be available. Super off peak is only 5 hours for me, so at those rates I'll be able to put 33% back into the battery during that time if I have 91% charge efficiency. Here is the max you can put into the 131kwh ER truck in a 5 (10) hour window given different charge rates and a 91% charge efficiency (rounding differences show some numbers are not doubled for 10 hour windows):

16A = 13% (27%)
24A = 20% (40%)
32A = 27% (53%)
40A = 33% (67%)
48A = 40% (80%)
64A = 53% (full)
80A = 67% (full)

On a 200kwh truck here are the numbers in 5 (10) hour windows:
16A = 9% (17%)
24A = 13% (26%)
32A = 17% (35%)
40A = 22% (44%)
48A = 26% (52%)
64A = 35% (70%)
80A = 44% (87%)

You clearly get more headroom for being able to fill the battery in a shorter window, and if/when battery packs grow to 200kwh you'd need that power to fill the battery in even a 10 hour window, but at what premium for wiring? And how many "big fills" that don't fit in your TOU window will it take to make up the difference, and how much will each of those hurt? This will vary per location, the install cost premium for bigger wires, TOU windows, and peak/off-peak rate differences.

 

[Tony Burgh]

The local electric company set up their TOU to penalize use between 1 pm and 9pm by increasing generation rates (1/3 of total cost) by 50%. All other times the generation rate is reduced to 50%. Transmission and supply is 1/3 total. Taxes and fees are another 1/3. So 2/3 of rate doesn’t vary.
In the end, there is no great financial incentive to charge over night. But it’s nice to know that at 80@, I can fully charge overnight, even if it’s rarely required.

 

[jefro]

I'd still believe that most owners can easily charge their daily use at home with a modest EVSE.
Contractors, long distance, cold weather type of users will or could require the full battery each day but if a typical F150 owner I'd think 60 miles a day or less.

 

[jpepper07]

And? If you're someone who actually needs 80A (or just wants it), that's how you get it today without the extra pins on the Ford Pro charger. I don't agree with the desire to avoid this, but there aren't exactly a lot of 80A options out there given so few vehicles that can utilize it.



Do you actually need 80A? I originally wanted to go 80A when I bought my Model 3, but at the time (early 2020) it seemed like the industry trend was towards lower input chargers, not higher. Older Teslas could utilize more than 48A (72A on triple charger S/X IIRC) but newer ones are 48A just like the 3/Y.

Now with over two years of home charging experience and with BEV trucks becoming a reality I am re-visiting this decision. At around half the efficiency of my 3 I can see potential for a couple days per year where I would not be able to be fully charged by the next morning.

The other factor to consider depending on your local provider is how wide your off peak hours are. Here in NJ, PSE&G RLM off-peak hours are only 10h per weeknight. It would not be possible to fully recharge an extended range Lightning on 48A if you only had 10 hours to do it. If you happen to get home late with a nearly empty battery you might only be 50% charged by morning if you want to use only off-peak power.

When 200 kwh pack trucks start running around 48A is going to be really inadequate. Lightning is IMO right on the edge of what can be done with just 48A.

Love your analysis of this. Thanks! I am building a new garage and believe I have myself talked into wiring up the 80amp charger but with a manual disconnect for the truck/generator. I have a grid tied solar array so I have to figure that out still since a truck/generator.

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