DCFC precondition temp

[Calvin H-C]

I have been led to believe that highway driving (at least in cold weather) would not increase battery temp in any matter. It would need to be city driving in which there is Regen occurring from time to time.

While city driving provides more regen opportunities, highway driving is not free from regen.

Coasting applies regen, just not as aggressively as braking does.

That said, while regen likely helps with warming the battery, the warmed coolant needed for cabin heating gets circulated through the battery and I suspect it plays a greater part in warming the battery, depending on driving conditions.

Sponsored

 

[luebri]

If you have never experienced throttled DCFC, then you haven't been monitoring with Car Scanner.

I have monitored and every session I start and hold 170 to 179kw for 5 to 10 minutes. If that is throttled then sign me up!

 

[RickLightning]

I have monitored and every session I start and hold 170 to 179kw for 5 to 10 minutes. If that is throttled then sign me up!

Here's a screen from CarScanner. It shows that the HVB was just below 40 degrees at the start of the session. As the battery warms, you can see the charger power increases.

Green line is battery temp.
Blue line is charger kW.
Red line is charger amperage requested.

 

[luebri]

Here's a screen from CarScanner. It shows that the HVB was just below 40 degrees at the start of the session. As the battery warms, you can see the charger power increases.

Green line is battery temp.
Blue line is charger kW.
Red line is charger amperage requested.

Great data. I have definitely charged in colder than 40F and not had that experience. Next I do I'll give it a try at trending it.

 

[RickLightning]

Great data. I have definitely charged in colder than 40F and not had that experience. Next I do I'll give it a try at trending it.

If you open up Car Scanner, you can see the battery temp, the amperage requested, and the amperage delivered, as well as the energy going to the heater. If you turn off the heater, any energy it shows it going to the battery.

I kept losing connections as my phone battled with Android Auto, Car Scanner, and ABRP, but it was interesting to watch the temps start at say 120 or 130 something, and then as the battery warmed up the speed increased, as that graph shows.

 

[cowboys1870]

My ‘22 SR does not appear to heat the battery when routing to a DCFC via Ford Nav and Carscanner.

Temp does not rise, and coolant heater shows 0 kW.

 

[RickLightning]

My ‘22 SR does not appear to heat the battery when routing to a DCFC via Ford Nav and Carscanner.

Temp does not rise, and coolant heater shows 0 kW.

Correct. It heats when charging. 10.0.1 will fix this.

 

[Firn]

Here we go again... I guess since it was on reddit, it must be true and Ford's documentation is incorrect. This is the link that Ford sent me: https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...-mustang-mach-e-battery-for-dc-fast-charging/ . They specifically said the Lightning does not have this feature.

I will preface this that I have a '22 so not sure if Ford added this to a newer year model.

If someone has actual evidence of preconditioning while driving to L3 charger, or documentation from Ford, please post it.

B177 did that just a few posts before yours.

 

[luebri]

If you open up Car Scanner, you can see the battery temp, the amperage requested, and the amperage delivered, as well as the energy going to the heater. If you turn off the heater, any energy it shows it going to the battery.

I kept losing connections as my phone battled with Android Auto, Car Scanner, and ABRP, but it was interesting to watch the temps start at say 120 or 130 something, and then as the battery warmed up the speed increased, as that graph shows.

Im familiar with the various data points on Carscanner, but since I've not had a throttled session I never really looked at the HVB Temp during a session. Also, since I dont DCFC much I have not had a lot of chances.

Closest real data I have is a carscanner phone screen recording of my first Tesla charging session last April on a 50F day (Truck had been outside at work all day). Unfortunately I dont have the HVB temp data shown on the recording, but would assume it had normalized to ambient. I was up to 170kw in 30 seconds, 175kw in 60 seconds and held between 175 & 179 for 5 minutes. 170+ for 6 1/2 minutes.

Overall session was 7 minutes 20 seconds, Total 20 kwh, Avg speed 164kw.

Here is another data sample... picture of hitting at 174kw less than a minute into charge at an EA station. This was November 7th, outside temp was 21F at 9 PM after 90 minutes of interstate driving,.

That "curve" has been extremely consistent from my experience in conditions as low as 20F.

 

[Firn]

I posted my recent experiences in the 10.3.0 thread but they are relevant here.

I did NOT observe preconditioning on my truck, and that is with 10.1.1. Battery temp was at 50F.

Once plugged in the heater kicked on and warmed the battery from ~55f to ~70f. Since I plugged in multiple times due to charger failure my battery was at multiple temps. I did not notice a speed difference in charging between 50F, 60f, or70f even though the heater was actively warming the battery at the lower temps (so why?).

So, not sure what happened

Tried to test preconditioning and charging speeds today.

Took off from home and AA was routing to the local charger (had looked it up when stopped). Battery was at 50f and it appeared that it started preconditioning.

Stopped the routing (preconditioning stopped) to test if sport mode or tow/haul would heat the battery. Neither did, over ten minutes of trying.

Stopped and routed to the nearest EA 350. Started driving but no warming of the battery, it stayed in the low 50s. Inlet temp creeped up a slight bit to 57, but the app said the heater was not drawing power. Tried AA routing, no change, tried Ford again, still the same. Not sure why preconditioning didnt work, maybe since it started once and I ended the route, or because I started the Ford NAV with only 15 miles to the charger. Ultimately I have a hard time believing that 50f was warm enough that preconditioning wasn't needed.

Arrived at the EA 350 and started to charge. Speed quickly ramped up to 170kw (426A iirc) but the PTC heater went full blast to 8kw and raised inlet temp to 90f. This continued until the battery reached 60f and then the charger faulted and ended the charge. Tried another stall and the charge started but it only went up to 80kw (215A) and wouldn't go any higher, no heating observed this second attempt with the battery temps in the 60s.

At this point I ended the session and left. SOC at arrival was 41%, at departure it was around 50%.

Attempt number 2

Left home at 45% SOC and used AA to route to a charger (I'm on 10.1.1). Again no conditioning of the battery was observed.

Tried the charger and saw 180kw, but the heater was running at 8kw. Max amperage was 450 into the battery. Heater ran until the charger again faulted (same charger), At this point the battery was in the 70s.

Tried the other cable on the same pedestal and charging kicked off, hitting 171-172kw, but no heater. I have never seen the 180s before, but I have seen the low 170s. However, power into the battery was the same 450A. The charger then faulted again and dropped to 30kw or so, so I gave up and went home.

I would like to believe the reports here of charging at 195kw, and the sustained 145kw would be awesome. I don't know how accurate my test was, what with the charger faulting so many times, but I think it's reasonable to think 10.1.1 is peaking at 450A, or roughly 170kw. If 10.3.0 shows up then maybe we can see.

 

[Heliian]

have been led to believe that highway driving (at least in cold weather) would not increase battery temp in any matter.

Yesterday I left work it was - 9degC, battery temp gauge was near the low end of normal range, 45 minutes later at my destination, the battery was almost in the middle.

. One morning the battery was 21 degrees. After driving for 1.5 hours, it was 39.5 degrees.

Yes, as you see your battery warmed up by nearly 20 degrees. You probably would have seen an even bigger rise if you had started plugged in. That's why preconditioning is very important for range, it doesn't waste all that energy trying to heat the battery. I did a nice drive this winter about 650kms @-20degC and the battery stayed nominal between charging stops but I also started with a preconditioned battery.

The important takeaway from this is that everyone can understand that the battery temp will rise when being either charged or discharged.

 

[potato]

We had a free DCFC for a couple of months here, so I did a few charges there, many in cold weather. My 23 XLT did not do any preconditioning when routing to the charger via Ford nav. Battery temp stayed the same (well below freezing) and no noticeable increase in coolant heater power compared to normal just heating the cabin.

I never got 10.0.1 specifically. I got 10.1.0 and 10.1.1.

 

[RickLightning]

Yesterday I left work it was - 9degC, battery temp gauge was near the low end of normal range, 45 minutes later at my destination, the battery was almost in the middle.

Yes, as you see your battery warmed up by nearly 20 degrees. You probably would have seen an even bigger rise if you had started plugged in. That's why preconditioning is very important for range, it doesn't waste all that energy trying to heat the battery. I did a nice drive this winter about 650kms @-20degC and the battery stayed nominal between charging stops but I also started with a preconditioned battery.

The important takeaway from this is that everyone can understand that the battery temp will rise when being either charged or discharged.

Yes, but no.

40 isn't enough, it heats more.

When we left home, the battery was preconditioned. It was 60.8 degrees. 1:45 later, it was 48 degrees. It had to heat up to fast charge.

Sponsored