Dumb question maybe, but where does the $80,000 "cap" number for the EV credit come from

[Sklith]

When GM's tax credits evaporated, their Bolt MSRP coincidentally went down by exactly the same amount. The way I see this credit is it's not for us to take advantage of but the manufacturers do instead. I'm certain Ford's prices on their EVs will have to drop once they lose credits.

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[sotek2345]

When GM's tax credits evaporated, their Bolt MSRP coincidentally went down by exactly the same amount. The way I see this credit is it's not for us to take advantage of but the manufacturers do instead. I'm certain Ford's prices on their EVs will have to drop once they lose credits.

That depends on demand. the Bolt never had a years long reservation queue. I suspect that any price cut like that will be in Gen 2 (20205 / 2026 time frame). Maybe we start to see rebates in late 2024, early 2025 for Gen 1 if demand really falls off, but I doubt it.

 

[Blainestang]

When GM's tax credits evaporated, their Bolt MSRP coincidentally went down by exactly the same amount. The way I see this credit is it's not for us to take advantage of but the manufacturers do instead. I'm certain Ford's prices on their EVs will have to drop once they lose credits.

I think they may be able to hold off changing the MSRP for a while because demand is just so high relative to supply, but they may at some point offer some incentives to dealers. That's what Chevy did for a while. They just increased discounts from ~$5000 to $12500, so the final price to consumers remained ~$25000 the whole time.

The other thing Ford could do that would increase sales without changing prices would be allow the XLT to add the ER battery without the forced $9500 option package, or allow retail buyers to buy the Pro ER.

 

[Sklith]

Yes, it does seem hard to imagine Ford dropping the price of their Lightning now but maybe the hype won't be so big with other EV trucks being available in a couple years.

 

[Carminus]

You are forgetting all of the other vehicles that count for the credit (all plug in hybrids count as well). Ford has less than 40k left as of the end of 2021. Mach-e, Lightning, Transit (electric), and all plug in hybrids will continue to count against that, so they will hit it sometime this year.

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

Yeah, I stand corrected.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit-quarterly-sales

According to IRS ford has 50,405 rebates left. Yeah I can see this being burnt up by the end of the year or early next.

 

[Dolfanrich13]

Keep in mind the current $7500 is a tax credit if you pay $7500 or more in taxes (which most do if your buying a 80k truck). In other words, if you only pay $6000 a year in taxes your only get $6000.

The BBB bill did pass congress but stalled in Senate because of Joe Manchin (D) from West Virginia. They need all Democrats to vote yes, but he refused because he a fossil fuel guy as his business is in coal. So the bill stalled without his support.

As Biden aka Brandon support dwindles so does the chances of this bill passing. Honestly, with inflation I am not a fan of spending more money but at the same time it would not pass up taking $12,500 off at the Point of Sale vs waiting a year for my tax return.

I was able to keep my Lariat down to 79k not sure why the OP was having a problem with it. Granted, I didn't have a ADM on mine either. The ADM is line E24 "Difference from total msrp"

Lariat with extended battery, All terrain tires and tough bed

• • Base MSRP
    E11
    $67,474.00
  • Total Options
    E125
    $10,745.00
  • Destination and Delivery Charges
    E22
    $1,695.00
  • Total MSRP
    E123
    $79,914.00
  • Difference from Total MSRP
    E24
    $0.00
  • Dealer Selling Price
    E20
    $79,914.00
• Order Deposit
  E134
  $500.00
• Estimated Cash Price
  E36
  $79,414.00
• 
  
• options details
  • 275/60R20 BSW All-Terrain Tires
    $150.00
  • Ford Charge Station Pro
  • High 511A
    $10,000.00
  • Single-Speed Transmission
  • Bedliner – Tough Bed Spray-In
    $595.00
  • Configured Options
    $10,745.00
• 
  
  

If you don’t make that money good time to take stock profits to get that full $7500 haha

 

[broncoaz]

Keep in mind the current $7500 is a tax credit if you pay $7500 or more in taxes (which most do if your buying a 80k truck). In other words, if you only pay $6000 a year in taxes your only get $6000.

The BBB bill did pass congress but stalled in Senate because of Joe Manchin (D) from West Virginia. They need all Democrats to vote yes, but he refused because he a fossil fuel guy as his business is in coal. So the bill stalled without his support.

As Biden aka Brandon support dwindles so does the chances of this bill passing. Honestly, with inflation I am not a fan of spending more money but at the same time it would not pass up taking $12,500 off at the Point of Sale vs waiting a year for my tax return.

God forbid someone try to hold the line on spending, especially when the people in power were only funding the bill for a year to make the numbers wash. The true cost of the bill was significantly higher than advertised, I’m glad it’s dead. I certainly feel like I pay more than my fair share of taxes, but I don’t need a higher tax credit stolen from the backs of other taxpayers’ children in the form of more debt.

I’m not trying to make this political, both parties are equally at fault for the enormous $30T national debt. We can’t run our homes with endless debt, they shouldn’t run the country like that.

 

[Will]

does anyone have a link to see the caps on other types of ev not just the $80k truck cap. I am looking at other ev's but cant find a version of the bill that says $80k for trucks only older one that say $74K.

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

does anyone have a link to see the caps on other types of ev not just the $80k truck cap. I am looking at other ev's but cant find a version of the bill that says $80k for trucks only older one that say $74K.

There is no cap right now. 74K and 80k are/were part of bills that didn’t pass. (Build Back Better etc)

 

[SmokingtheMeats]

Yeah, I stand corrected.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit-quarterly-sales

According to IRS ford has 50,405 rebates left. Yeah I can see this being burnt up by the end of the year or early next.

That’s without Q4 data still. It’s roughly 42k left now.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Looking at some numbers.... Ford sold 27,140 Mach E's last year (source: https://insideevs.com/news/558927/us-ford-mache-sales-2021/) that said even *if* they sell another 27-30k in 2022 and project another 30k in 2023 that would be 90k total between 2021-2023. Which would leave about 110k rebates for lighting owners for 2022-? given the max is 200,000.

Right now we can only guess when the rebate will be used up. Maybe the mindset should be as if you were not getting a rebate at all.

Sorry, but wrong, Ford will run out by 3Q 2022 even without selling ANY Lightnings, and be phased out by the end of the year. They are already over 160k credits used.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

When GM's tax credits evaporated, their Bolt MSRP coincidentally went down by exactly the same amount. The way I see this credit is it's not for us to take advantage of but the manufacturers do instead. I'm certain Ford's prices on their EVs will have to drop once they lose credits.

100% correct. Tesla's prices came down almost dollar for dollar after the credits lapsed. Prices have since risen due to demand and new models, but it was a direct thing when it occurred.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

does anyone have a link to see the caps on other types of ev not just the $80k truck cap. I am looking at other ev's but cant find a version of the bill that says $80k for trucks only older one that say $74K.

There are no vehicle price caps of any kind. There is no cap of $80k on trucks. or any other EV. That was in the failed bill. No caps - BUT the 200k total number of EV credits per manufacturer still applies, and Ford is nearly out.

 

[shutterbug]

Sorry, but wrong, Ford will run out by 3Q 2022 even without selling ANY Lightnings, and be phased out by the end of the year. They are already over 160k credits used.

If Ford reaches 200K during Q3, then you'd still be eligible for full credit during Q4. After that 2 more quarters of reduced credit.

 

[shutterbug]

100% correct. Tesla's prices came down almost dollar for dollar after the credits lapsed. Prices have since risen due to demand and new models, but it was a direct thing when it occurred.

With the current inflation rate, Ford may choose not to reduce prices when the credit expires. So that would be a stealth price increase.

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