F-150 Lightning EV Tax Credits & Rebates - Discussions & Predictions

[Fordskeptic]

In addition, in 2022 the tax credit can be applied by the dealer for the tax year 2021 as a down payment instead of the customer waiting until 2023 to apply for the refundable tax credit on his tax return. This is a change.

This sounds like paying Tuesday for a hamburger today.?

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[fitek]

I assume that if I sell my house (which is now over 800k, paid 300k seven years ago), I might have a problem with the AGI?

 

[Sdctcher]

I assume that if I sell my house (which is now over 800k, paid 300k seven years ago), I might have a problem with the AGI?

Only if it were rented for a period and had become a capital gain exceeding $500,000 (if you were single).

Ask your accountant.

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

capital gains will take a big chunk - didn't you do $250k in improvements?

 

[fitek]

also note there is a proposed 30% tax credit for commercial electric vehicles. Can I buy a Platinum with a bed rack and get a $30,000 credit???

That section made my head spin, but the below seems relevant... for my work vehicle purchases, my prior tax accountant made me register the vehicle as commercial (but in CA and WA, I think all pickups get commercial plates) and said it should be in the name of the company. I didn't do that for my last van though, and my newer accountant never said it was a problem. I do have an LLC under which I conduct business and the vehicle depreciation and expenses go on different IRS forms than if it were an individual vehicle purchase. Whether your pickup with a rack would stand up to an audit is another question.

(1) meets the requirements of subparagraphs (A) and (C) of section 36C(e)(1) without 25
regard to any gross vehicle weight rating or the requirements of section 36C(d), and is 26
acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer and not for resale,

 

[fitek]

Only if it were rented for a period and had become a capital gain exceeding $500,000 (if you were single).

Ask your accountant.

I'm married and we have been renting since we stopped living there. I don't much like being a landlord so was considering dumping it. Will discuss with my tax guy.

 

[HtownHog]

I assume that if I sell my house (which is now over 800k, paid 300k seven years ago), I might have a problem with the AGI?

You should be able to exclude a majority of that, 500k profit excluded in home sale revenue if you are filing married jointly and it is your primary residence.

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

dump it this year

 

[jefro]

I did a 1031 to try to avoid taxes. Not sure that worked out well.

 

[vandy1981]

- will allow for the "Transfer of Credit" to the dealer for what would seem to be the point of sale credit (page 1494) -- though, I believe this subsection (b) provision will take effect after Dec 31, 2022 (page 1500). The extended start time makes sense if they have to figure out a way to credit the dealers closer to time of purchase.

I'm glad that they would delay the implementation of this part of the bill. They will need a robust system to verify VINs or people will try (intentionally or not) to claim the tax credit after their dealer claims one at purchase.

I'm imagining horror stories about the dealer claiming the credit without telling the buyer, and the buyer getting their credit rejected by the IRS. I don't think that even the most unscrupulous dealers are that evil, though...

 

[Fordskeptic]

I'm glad that they would delay the implementation of this part of the bill. They will need a robust system to verify VINs or people will try (intentionally or not) to claim the tax credit after their dealer claims one at purchase.

I'm imagining horror stories about the dealer claiming the credit without telling the buyer, and the buyer getting their credit rejected by the IRS. I don't think that even the most unscrupulous dealers are that evil, though...

That would be fraud, possibly identity theft, no?

 

[vandy1981]

That would be fraud, possibly identity theft, no?

I doubt that there's a dealer that would do this. I think it's more likely that the buyer would try to claim the credit after the point of sale credit, intentionally or not.

There was rampant fraud with the current credit until the IRS started cracking down.

 

[Sdctcher]

There are many hurdles ahead for the future of the EV Credit.

This week the Senate Parliamentarian will certify that the proposed EV Credit will or will not meet her requirements. Also, it will have to be established that the BBB Bill meets the "Byrd Rule".

The CBO will probably not have complete findings on the true cost of the Bill until next week so the House can vote on it. The week before Thanksgiving the Senate is putting off the Bill so they can attend to other matters and take their break. It will probably be early in December before they start their considerations.

Then comes Vote-A-Rama where anyone can offer amendments over 24 hours. I expect a Republican will strip the extra "American-Labor" (+$5,000) out and the Arizona and/or the West Virginia Senators will go along blaming the Republicans.

In the end the best we may expect is a reset of the $7,500 credit (Tax Credit or Refundable) to all manufacturers or no new bill and a continuing $7,500 Tax Credit (Non-Refundable) for Ford under current law until about the Summer of 2023 (2 Quarters after 200,00 Units Reached). That is my opinion. Do Not Expect Ford to release prices or open the order window for the Lightning until the middle of December. Do Not plan for $12,500.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

All

There are many hurdles ahead for the future of the EV Credit.

This week the Senate Parliamentarian will certify that the proposed EV Credit will or will not meet her requirements. Also, it will have to be established that the BBB Bill meets the "Byrd Rule".

The CBO will probably not have complete findings on the true cost of the Bill until next week so the House can vote on it. The week before Thanksgiving the Senate is putting off the Bill so they can attend to other matters and take their break. It will probably be early in December before they start their considerations.

Then comes Vote-A-Rama where anyone can offer amendments over 24 hours. I expect a Republican will strip the extra "American-Labor" (+$5,000) out and the Arizona and/or the West Virginia Senators will go along blaming the Republicans.

In the end the best we may expect is a reset of the $7,500 credit (Tax Credit or Refundable) to all manufacturers or no new bill and a continuing $7,500 Tax Credit (Non-Refundable) for Ford under current law until about the Summer of 2023 (2 Quarters after 200,00 Units Reached). That is my opinion. Do Not Expect Ford to release prices or open the order window for the Lightning until the middle of December. Do Not plan for $12,500.

All correct - plus it will then be redone in the House-Senate negotiations, if there are any - Manchon still controls all, and anything the House puts on the table is purely a first shot at negotiating with him and other responsible Senators.

 

[Sdctcher]

The EV Age is underway but in our rush to get there we are screwing up. I am discussing Economics - Not Politics.

Rampant inflation has reared its ugly head and will severely limit future government spending aspirations politically. The credit market is starting to worry about the large deficits and higher interest rates. Not everyone is convinced that government EV handouts are necessary except perhaps recipients. Many say just let the capitalist marketplace work it out.

The national EV Charge Station buildout (government supported and commercial) is now underway and it needs to be much better in place before more widespread adoption of EV vehicles.

The three biggest EV marketplaces (California, Texas, and Florida) need to get their grids in order before many more EVs could be adequately supported.

There needs to be wider adoption of affordable in-between EV solutions such as hybrids, plug-ins, natural gas, and hydrogen (both mostly commercial use) during a few years before batteries can be much more efficient and cheaper to produce and recycle (think 2025 solid state). Factories take years to build and scale up.

The EV Adoption Culture has begun in earnest in the public mind. There is less need now to use the government to push it. Political pressure should now be a wait-and-see posture to see whether the marketplace will keep it going without additional rebates/credits. If it stalls later new legislation can be enacted. Ford, Rivian, and a few smaller manufacturers will continue to use current tax credits for the next couple of years until they reach the limits.

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