First time on CAT scales with PB and TT

[UGADawg96]

So finally had the opportunity to hitch up and run across the CAT scales.

Truck specs:
'21 Oxford White, 302a XLT PB 7.2kw 157, 4x4, Max Tow, Tow mirrors, 360* camera, Sport package, 20" Sport wheels, Co-Pilot360 assist 2.0, Interior work surface, Power adjustable pedals, 8 Sp B&O, Onboard scales, Tailgate step/work surface, Box link, Wheel well liners. Factory Payload 1523 lbs.
Added: LINE-X Premium. XPEL PRIME XR tint. WeatherTech HP mats. Rugged Ridge shackle isolators. Sporthfish rear seat release. Geolandar G015 LT285/60r20.

TT factory specs:
Grand Design Imagine 2250rk, UVW 5546 lbs, Hitch Weight 515 lbs, GVWR 7495 lbs, Length 27' 11", Height 11' 0", Axle Rating 3500

The chains were able to reach and connect to the hitch when straight, but they were too tight for my comfort for turns. So I used some shackles to provide a little more reach. Plus, a little more red on this truck never hurts

Before hitching, the front fender was 38 1/4 and the rear was 41 1/8
After WD hitching, the front fender was 38 1/2 and the rear was 39 1/2

Using a 4' level on the bed rail, the truck was dead level. Using the level on the TT above the axles on the horizontal seam, the bubble was between the lines, but rear shifted slightly, which meant a very, very slight tongue lean.

The truck's Geolandar LT tires were only inflated to 50lbs and the TT tires (Goodyear Endurance Load D Max 65 lb) were between 60-65 lb.

I used the sway control on the Recurve R6 hitch and disabled the F150's electronic sway control.

It was pretty windy today and going about 60-65 mph, I felt some sway with truck passes or occasional large gusts. It felt more than when I've towed with an HD, but it wasn't that bad really. I'm thinking next time, air the truck up to 65 lbs.

According to the trip computer, the MPGs were 8.5 over the 30 or so miles from the storage unit to the scales and back. We used tow/haul mode.

The TT had almost all our gear in it. We gassed the truck to full. The only thing in the truck with us was a pancake air compressor. We normally also bring our clothes, cooler, and camping chairs, but didn't for this first measurement.

The scales measured 3500 on the steer, 3900 on the drive, and 5660 on the trailer axles.

I think since the powerboost has a 4150 rear GAWR, it means we can load up to another 250 lbs on the rear axle.

Open to any and all feedback, support, or criticism. Thanks!

Pics below. Enjoy

 

[Twg1]

Super informative. Looks like you’ve got a good distribution. Unfortunately, appears this is what a maxed out configuration looks like (3500 +3900=7400gvw).
Curious, did the onboard scales show the same? Any Ford warnings about exceeding GVWR?
I ask because my truck on order is comparitively spec’d, and I tow a 6500lb race car hauler. I’m going to be right there with you.

 

[jeffcrum]

That is great info. Thanks so much for sharing!

We don't have a TT yet. But, plan on retiring to one in the next four years. So, I am sucking up all the info that I can between now and then.

Heck, I might be on a different truck by then. But, this is awesome!

 

[UGADawg96]

Super informative. Looks like you’ve got a good distribution. Unfortunately, appears this is what a maxed out configuration looks like (3500 +3900=7400gvw).
Curious, did the onboard scales show the same? Any Ford warnings about exceeding GVWR?
I ask because my truck on order is comparitively spec’d, and I tow a 6500lb race car hauler. I’m going to be right there with you.

That I'm not so sure about. The CAT scales look to be rounded to the 100th, which seems like there is room there. Don't know if that means the front could have been 3450 and the rear 3850?

Also, I tried both the the onboard scales and the hitch tool and neither give you any numbers, it's just a floating level between two lines or it asked me for the trailer weight. I'm like WTF, if I knew that, I wouldn't need this feature. Also, when either my wife or I were in the truck it said good, but with both of us, it's said slightly over max. It isn't like is says, hey buddy, you got 1400lbs here and then 1600 there.

What I don't get is how the front can allow 3900 and the rear 4150, but only 7350 combined. The truck is more than level and it appears like it can take on a little more weight by looks. And I have no idea how to possibly put another 400lbs on the steer axle.

 

[UGADawg96]

I was possibly thinking about going up one set of holes on the R6 hitch to get the TT to shift some weight back off the hitch and to the rear, but not sure if that's wise or if it'll put the TT nose high or still stay pretty level.

 

[Roscopcoletrain]

Looks like a nice setup you have. How do you like the Recurve?

 

[UGADawg96]

Looks like a nice setup you have. How do you like the Recurve?

I don't know if I can provide a decent review as I have nothing to compare it to. It's the only one I've used and have only used it four times now. It is easy to connect and disconnect, kinda plug and play. The guy I bought the TT from provided it as part of the sale. So it is still technically dialed in for his truck. I am taking it in next month for some warranty items and will have the place check it to make sure it is set up correctly for my truck. I am thinking going up one set of holes. Hopefully that will level it out and reduce some tongue weight.

 

[Roscopcoletrain]

I understand what you're saying. I actually have the same hitch. Only hitch Ive had with my current trailer so I too can't compare it to anything else. I don't see many with it, so I'm always curious what others think about it. Ive been using it since 2016. They've revised it a bit, different bars/pins. I broke a pin on one side, and on the other, the keeper pin broke. They advised me to just use some grade 8 bolts. Other than that, its been a solid hitch.

 

[Buyer2021]

...It was pretty windy today and going about 60-65 mph, I felt some sway with truck passes or occasional large gusts. It felt more than when I've towed with an HD, but it wasn't that bad really. I'm thinking next time, air the truck up to 65 lbs.
......

The scales measured 3500 on the steer, 3900 on the drive, and 5660 on the trailer axles.

Those weights with your WDH 'engaged', is that correct?

A suggestion for your consideration next time you are loaded for travel and have a CAT scale handy:

1. Make a weigh pass with your trailer hitched but the WDH not engaged (hitch torsion bars not tensioned)
2. Unhitch the trailer and get axle weights for the truck alone (CAT scale locations invariably have a place where you can unhitch and leave your trailer briefly, big-rigs often need to get a 'tractor-only' weight, too)

With those data (and only with all of those data) you can calculate the weight bias of your trailer as loaded for travel:

• (total weight from ticket 1) - (total weight from ticket 2) = (total loaded trailer weight)
• (drive axle weight from ticket 1) - (drive axle weight from ticket 2) = (trailer tongue weight)**
• Confirmation calculation: (trailer tongue weight) from the previous step + (trailer axles weight from ticket 1) should = (total loaded trailer weight) calculated per the first step above

**note your tongue-weight calculated using this method will be slightly 'higher than when actually' towing because the trailer will be sloped to the front relative to its 'normal level trim' when you weigh with the WDH not-engaged. You can get a very accurate tongue-weight if you go to the trouble to adjust your ball-height to 'trailer-level' with the WDH not-engaged, but that's a lot of effort so most folks don't take that extra step.


Your (trailer tongue weight) should be at least 11% of your (total loaded trailer weight); if greater than 11% IME that's even better insofar as providing inherently less propensity for your trailer to 'sway'. Note that the use of a WDH does not alter those rules of the physics of trailering dynamics.

Why do I say 11% rather than 10%? That's to 'correct' for the weight transfer you get when you run a WDH-equipped trailer on a CAT scale with the WDH not engaged and the trailer sitting 'abnormally' low at the front.

You can benefit greatly from ensuring that your trailer's loaded tongue-weight bias is in the 10%-15% range often cited in various guidance. Don't be shy about aiming for the upper-end of that range, the more weight is biased forward the more inherent resistance your trailer will have against trailer 'sway'.

Then, use the WDH to trim the rig to 'level'; it's usually best to adjust the hitch so the trailer is as near to level when sitting passive, but if anything you want the trailer nose slightly low, not slightly high; this because when the trailer nose is high weight is transferred to the rear and that will alter your desired weight bias adversely.

Obviously, each alteration of one parameter affects others, so it can take a bit of test-and-retest to find the optimal tongue-weight and hitch adjustment that yields acceptable truck axle loading and overall 'trim' of the rig. But CAT scale weighs are relatively cheap and once you find the optimal condition for your typical loading you can usually repeat that easily and enjoy the best possible handling your rig can deliver for every trip. The result is relaxed and confident towing in most any situation you may encounter in your travels - and isn't 'relaxed and confident' what makes RV'ing what it should be?

Just for your consideration, wishing you many miles of happy towing as I have enjoyed with a variety of RV rigs over the last 40 years. ?

 

[UGADawg96]

I understand what you're saying. I actually have the same hitch. Only hitch Ive had with my current trailer so I too can't compare it to anything else. I don't see many with it, so I'm always curious what others think about it. Ive been using it since 2016. They've revised it a bit, different bars/pins. I broke a pin on one side, and on the other, the keeper pin broke. They advised me to just use some grade 8 bolts. Other than that, its been a solid hitch.

My bar bolts look heavier duty that the one's you've posted. I think they are grade 8. I can't find a picture in my gallery and I'm at work, but they look like this I found on google images.

 

[Roscopcoletrain]

My bar bolts look heavier duty that the one's you've posted. I think they are grade 8. I can't find a picture in my gallery and I'm at work, but they look like this I found on google images.

Yeah, I think thats why they upgrading them to a beefer bolt, probably had them failing like mine.

 

[daemonic3]

Hey Dawg, I remember you around when we were all trying to figure out our PB payloads and trailers we can handle. At the time I had an Imagine 2800BH and have slightly downsized to the 2500RL (knowing it will just be me and the wife soon). So I've got a similar setup but I took more risk in getting the king ranch bells and whistles (since 95% of time its my daily driver), and have the shorter bed.

I'm with you on the GAWR and GVWR and where margins and derating get applied by Ford. I've mentioned elsewhere that I do engineering specs (though not vehicles) and when derating at the system level you have to assume worst cases all statistically aligning at the same time. We know the individual weight ratings (tires, axles, chassis) are more capable individually as components. So I also believe we have some margins at the axles (and tires) but still try to manage the GVWR as best as possible. I think the individual GAWR are more important and I want to balance the same margin on each because we still need margin for transient forces going over dips and bumps one axle at a time.

Personally, since you already have the longer wheelbase you are already more resistant to sway than most of us, so I'd add gear in the trailer kitchen over the axles (where you have 7000# rating) and not in the truck. Or if you do add gear in the truck I'd use the backseat (sounds like you don't have rear passengers) to put it at the truck center of gravity and not eat into my rear GAWR margin.

Regarding the truck scales, I have never seen a number that wasn't divisible by 20 for any axle, so I think they round to the nearest 20, not 100. I could be wrong but I'm just going by all the measurements I've seen or done.

 

[UGADawg96]

Hey Dawg, I remember you around when we were all trying to figure out our PB payloads and trailers we can handle. At the time I had an Imagine 2800BH and have slightly downsized to the 2500RL (knowing it will just be me and the wife soon). So I've got a similar setup but I took more risk in getting the king ranch bells and whistles (since 95% of time its my daily driver), and have the shorter bed.

I'm with you on the GAWR and GVWR and where margins and derating get applied by Ford. I've mentioned elsewhere that I do engineering specs (though not vehicles) and when derating at the system level you have to assume worst cases all statistically aligning at the same time. We know the individual weight ratings (tires, axles, chassis) are more capable individually as components. So I also believe we have some margins at the axles (and tires) but still try to manage the GVWR as best as possible. I think the individual GAWR are more important and I want to balance the same margin on each because we still need margin for transient forces going over dips and bumps one axle at a time.

Personally, since you already have the longer wheelbase you are already more resistant to sway than most of us, so I'd add gear in the trailer kitchen over the axles (where you have 7000# rating) and not in the truck. Or if you do add gear in the truck I'd use the backseat (sounds like you don't have rear passengers) to put it at the truck center of gravity and not eat into my rear GAWR margin.

Regarding the truck scales, I have never seen a number that wasn't divisible by 20 for any axle, so I think they round to the nearest 20, not 100. I could be wrong but I'm just going by all the measurements I've seen or done.

Thanks for the post and suggestions on balancing weight. Yes, I do recall those exchanges on you downsizing rigs.

I now feel that installing a kayak rack and loading our boats over the truck bed is probably not possible while towing this TT. That would add another ~200 lbs. We're kinda bummed about it.

Yeah, I've searched a bunch and almost all results shows the scales round to the 20. And now that I look back, the trailer was 5660. Just odd that both truck axles ended with 00.

I did notice playing with the truck head unit this morning that while the default screen for the onboard scales is kinda crap with the vertical scale with no numbers, there is a second screen that actually showed a horizonal scale with numbers. I tested it by getting out of the truck, zeroing it, and then getting in and seeing how much it said I weighed. I am thinking about going back down to storage and using that to get a close estimate of the trailer tongue weight with and without the WDH bars engaged.

I've asked a few guys at work that tow and they thought going up one hole on the hitch would be helpful as long as the trailer doesn't go nose up. I have an appt to take in the trailer for a couple small warranty items in early Feb. I am going to ask them to review the WDH setup to see if they agree.

 

[daemonic3]

Thanks for the post and suggestions on balancing weight. Yes, I do recall those exchanges on you downsizing rigs.

I now feel that installing a kayak rack and loading our boats over the truck bed is probably not possible while towing this TT. That would add another ~200 lbs. We're kinda bummed about it.

Yeah, I've searched a bunch and almost all results shows the scales round to the 20. And now that I look back, the trailer was 5660. Just odd that both truck axles ended with 00.

I did notice playing with the truck head unit this morning that while the default screen for the onboard scales is kinda crap with the vertical scale with no numbers, there is a second screen that actually showed a horizonal scale with numbers. I tested it by getting out of the truck, zeroing it, and then getting in and seeing how much it said I weighed. I am thinking about going back down to storage and using that to get a close estimate of the trailer tongue weight with and without the WDH bars engaged.

I've asked a few guys at work that tow and they thought going up one hole on the hitch would be helpful as long as the trailer doesn't go nose up. I have an appt to take in the trailer for a couple small warranty items in early Feb. I am going to ask them to review the WDH setup to see if they agree.

Oh man, I feel ya. We couldn't fit our kayaks in the trailer so opted to sell them and get inflatables just to make em store easier, and I can put them in the trailer over the axles. They don't ride as nice but they are SO much more flexible for storage and transport!

I got one of these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007REK28M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) for tongue weight check but the on-board scales sound so cool! Would be fun to play with.

Have you ever hitched up without the WDH before? When I bought the 2500RL I moved my WDH onto it, and I temporarily had both my 2500RL and 2800BH in the same storage lot when we wanted to do the "move in" of all our stuff. Well I had to move the 2800BH closer through the lot so I hitched up with just the ball and safety chains. Hoo-boy without the weight distribution, the best I can describe the steering is the front feels very "watery" when the wheels are not planted with enough weight. It was so trippy...

When you say up one hole on "the hitch" do you mean on the shank or on the spring bar tension? I'm guessing the spring bars to try to throw more weight to the front axle. I think that may work without raising the nose height of the trailer. I'm curious how much one adjust notch will make!

 

[Jloyd98]

Interesting info. Unfortunately, this info isn't working in my favor at all with our Imagine 2970RL. We've only had it on one outing since getting the '21 PB, and it performed well on fairly windy days, coming and going on a 60 mile round trip. 9 MPG with 8-10 locked out at speeds of 55-60. This was on 2-lane highway, so no semis passing and sucking me in. I'm going to scale it in March or April. Guessing we may need to consider downsizing.