Ford EVs no longer eligible for IRS tax credit as of January 1, 2025

[broncoaz]

You also have to look at the income amount that the bottom 50% made which is roughly </=$47,000.

Fair point, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need to contribute to the tax base. You could certainly argue that the 1% are profiting from the labors of the bottom 50% and therefore the taxes paid by the 1% should be credited to the bottom 50%. I still like the idea of everyone seeing themselves paying a portion of the funds government spends/wastes to encourage participation in the discussion.

 

[hturnerfamily]

For the most part it costs way way more to DCFC charge the to drive an equal gasser.

even if your own calculations of DC Fast Charging costs compared to Gas or Diesel prices were to sway anyone who already owns and EV, or plans to, you are missing the bigger point:
NO gas or diesel vehicle has the LUXURY of fueling from home, 90% of the time, and at prices that are sometimes 80-90% less than what you've put in your calculation. Those gas and deisel owners have to ALWAYS pay the full gas/diesel prices, not matter how they drive, or where they 'travel'... 100% of the time.

 

[RickLightning]

For the most part it costs way way more to DCFC charge the to drive an equal gasser. Let’s take an F-150. If you are driving it reasonable on the freeway you should get around 18 mpg. At $3.50 it costs you $0.19 a mile.

The lightning if you are driving reasonable you should be able to average 2.0 kW/mile. At the now “cheap” $0.50 kW, you are looking at $0.25 a mile.

Sadly gas prices are currently lower and kW charges are increasing as they don’t have the steady stream of cars charging they likely need to have a low margin like gas stations do. So I have seen several in the $0.60 range so now we are ta
king a 1/3 more to need to wait for 35 minutes to charge and only travel about a 1/2-2/3 as far as the gasser can go.

So sadly that is why the subsidies need to go to make the cost go down on batteries, reduce charge time, and make more stations.

My family is currently all electric and this next winter my daughters is already ready to move from her Hyundai to a hybrid because the charging experience was enough to put her off of electric only cars, even when she charges for “free” at home.

So yeah the problem for the masses is not the $7,500 credit, it is they don’t like the experience unless they are staying just “local”.

I get tired rebutting this stuff, but I'll do it again.

First, $.50 per kWh is a price, sure. BUT, you'll pay less if you plan your trip. I have a trip I planned, and the costs at Tesla SuperChargers, before discount, range from 43 cents to 47 cents. But, let's call it 50 cents. Now, I'm going to pay the $12.99 for the ~20% discount, so the price is 40 cents (and yes, I will cover the $12.99 too).

You leave home with a full tank, which for many is around 10 to 15 cents per kWh. That counts too. You stay in a hotel, often, another free tank.

On most trips, we find free charging without much work. Hotels and other places.

In March, we drove from Michigan to California and back. Miles driven was 5,236. Efficiency was 1.8. Worked out to 12.4 cents per mile...

Hey wait, that's not 25 cents!!!!

Even if you do only fast charge, and pay 50 cents per kWh, you still have that cheap tank from home. The length of your trip impacts how much that changes the average.

I tell people that the cost of driving an EV on a trip is equivalent to gas at $3. or higher a gallon for a comparable vehicle.

 

[Danface]

But why?

I currently am not wealthy but already pay 26% of every dollar I earn to taxes over approximately 100k, then I hope to get even a portion back in April, so maybe my total effective tax rate is closer to 15% of my total income.

What we need to do is rewrite the entire tax code so that all income over say 35k is taxed at a flat 10-15% with no deduction/credits or loopholes.

That will provide correct and appropriate funding, reduce the need for so many people at the government to enforce a very complex and confusing tax code, and make it so people like you an I can invest and prosper in our economy, without needing to hunt for the next credit or say buy X just to tank it for the tax write off from your profitable investments.

So wealth generated using things like fresh water and roads go back to maintain and improve those resources for the good of Americans regardless of ones wealth.
The funny thing about that is a rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[Grease Lightning]

NO gas or diesel vehicle has the LUXURY of fueling from home,

That is udder bullshit. I am a farm kid. Many and many farm and rural people have fuel tanks at home to fill up their cars. You will almost always lose an argument when you try to use a definitive, when the data clearly would contradict your thesis.

fueling from home

You do realize a large portion of the populous in the US does not have the ability to charge at home? And of those that might have a private parking spot may have only the ability to charge at 120 volt? Did you know that most apartment complexes that do have level 2 chargers charge for them? Did you know they are often at $0.29 to $0.39 a kW for the privilege?

I love that people with means love to argue facts they forget about as they live in their private homes, with their $70,000 to $100,000 cars and trucks, and think of the road trips they get to have across the states. People that work “living wage jobs” generally do not have the same luxuries people like us have. Many might just have to rely on a public charging system or a private one that does not cost them the $0.15 or less a kW many of us see in our private homes.

While your experiences are true for you and a lot of us Lightning owners, the same is not always true for that 18-25 year old that needs a basic, safe, and economical electric ride to survive.

This meme popped up the other day and is very true of this conversation….

 

[Grease Lightning]

So wealth generated using things like fresh water and roads go back to maintain and improve those resources for the good of Americans regardless of ones wealth.

Did you know that most of our income taxes (federal aside) does not go to pay for roads or public infrastructure? Those are on the rate payers of the utilities and usually in the form of a gas tax.

For the feds, most is in a gas tax and yes some income taxes revenue can be sent to pay for infrastructure.

At the end of the day, my income does not affect my use of those systems. So rather then becoming a socialist or communist country, how about you reread my suggestion as the lowest of the low, would never pay a tax and our working class to upper class pay the bills…equally.

 

[Danface]

Did you know that most of our income taxes (federal aside) does not go to pay for roads or public infrastructure? Those are on the rate payers of the utilities and usually in the form of a gas tax.

For the feds, most is in a gas tax and yes some income taxes revenue can be sent to pay for infrastructure.

At the end of the day, my income does not affect my use of those systems. So rather then becoming a socialist or communist country, how about you reread my suggestion as the lowest of the low, would never pay a tax and our working class to upper class pay the bills…equally.

So you don't drive your truck on a road? Do you ever fly? I am not recommending socialism by an stretch of the imagination

 

[Grease Lightning]

I get tired rebutting this stuff, but I'll do it again.

First, $.50 per kWh is a price, sure. BUT, you'll pay less if you plan your trip. I have a trip I planned, and the costs at Tesla SuperChargers, before discount, range from 43 cents to 47 cents. But, let's call it 50 cents. Now, I'm going to pay the $12.99 for the ~20% discount, so the price is 40 cents (and yes, I will cover the $12.99 too).

You leave home with a full tank, which for many is around 10 to 15 cents per kWh. That counts too. You stay in a hotel, often, another free tank.

On most trips, we find free charging without much work. Hotels and other places.

In March, we drove from Michigan to California and back. Miles driven was 5,236. Efficiency was 1.8. Worked out to 12.4 cents per mile...

Hey wait, that's not 25 cents!!!!

Even if you do only fast charge, and pay 50 cents per kWh, you still have that cheap tank from home. The length of your trip impacts how much that changes the average.

I tell people that the cost of driving an EV on a trip is equivalent to gas at $3. or higher a gallon for a comparable vehicle.

Not disagreeing in practice, but not everyone plans and not every trip ends the way you want too.

I personally never early DCFC charge, but I had to in my M3 22 miles from my home right before thanksgiving because that night I took 4 trips to Salem for the hospital for my sick kiddo who needed surgery. So things happen.

Then see my reply to HTurner… as not everyone has the luxury of charging at home.

 

[Grease Lightning]

So you don't drive your truck on a road? Do you ever fly? I am not recommending socialism by an stretch of the imagination

I do and I pay my state’s equivalent of a gas tax for my EV. Generally no income tax in Oregon goes to roads. The generally only allocate gas taxes and bonds paid out of lottery proceeds. Income might be used for a very special project, but few and far between.

So again, my middle class salary does not impact that use or my fair share.

 

[RickLightning]

Not disagreeing in practice, but not everyone plans and not every trip ends the way you want too.

I personally never early DCFC charge, but I had to in my M3 22 miles from my home right before thanksgiving because that night I took 4 trips to Salem for the hospital for my sick kiddo who needed surgery. So things happen.

Then see my reply to HTurner… as not everyone has the luxury of charging at home.

I saw it.

1) No one makes a person buy an EV. If they don't have charging at home at an affordable rate, they need to consider that in their buying decision. Too many don't consider it. If their apartment complex charges them for the power, they should have figured that out before buying.

2) The problem with relying on public charging instead of home charging is that the infrastructure isn't setup for it. All these car companies providing years of free charging are making adoption harder by clogging the networks. If you did a survey of those charging to 100% at a DC fast charger, you would that the majority were locals, with free charging. 2 years down the line when their free charging ends, they're going to freak out.

3) You cannot apply logic to the tax credit like you are trying to do. Most people aren't logical, they are emotional. They aren't smart enough to do the math. They hear they are getting $7,500 from the government and they are all in. Same reason why when gas was $4+ a gallon, they sold their gas guzzlers and bought a tiny economical car. Then gas drops and they sell it and buy another gas guzzler. Makes zero sense financially, but they aren't smart enough to know that.

4) The government does what the people want them to do, whether it makes sense or not. Here's a check for $2,000 because of Covid, regardless of your need. Let's put a base here or a factory there, to benefit MY constituents. And here, take $7,500 off your taxes for driving a $79,999 truck.

 

[PJnc284]

I saw it.

1) No one makes a person buy an EV. If they don't have charging at home at an affordable rate, they need to consider that in their buying decision. Too many don't consider it. If their apartment complex charges them for the power, they should have figured that out before buying.

It's amazing at how many people don't do their due diligence when making what's likely the second largest purchase behind their home. Why does Ford say I will get 320 miles when I barely get 200 running 80? Why is the truck saying it's going to take 5 days to charge on my mobile charger? Why is my range cut in half when towing? Why is my range less in the winter? omgherd...DCFC is SOOOO EXPENSIVE.

 

[broncoaz]

I get tired rebutting this stuff, but I'll do it again.

First, $.50 per kWh is a price, sure. BUT, you'll pay less if you plan your trip. I have a trip I planned, and the costs at Tesla SuperChargers, before discount, range from 43 cents to 47 cents. But, let's call it 50 cents. Now, I'm going to pay the $12.99 for the ~20% discount, so the price is 40 cents (and yes, I will cover the $12.99 too).

You leave home with a full tank, which for many is around 10 to 15 cents per kWh. That counts too. You stay in a hotel, often, another free tank.

On most trips, we find free charging without much work. Hotels and other places.

In March, we drove from Michigan to California and back. Miles driven was 5,236. Efficiency was 1.8. Worked out to 12.4 cents per mile...

Hey wait, that's not 25 cents!!!!

Even if you do only fast charge, and pay 50 cents per kWh, you still have that cheap tank from home. The length of your trip impacts how much that changes the average.

I tell people that the cost of driving an EV on a trip is equivalent to gas at $3. or higher a gallon for a comparable vehicle.

In my case in MA home charging off the mains would cost 39 cents per kWh. Recalculating for that the cost of the Lightning and the cost of an ICE F-150 about equivalent at current fuel prices. For many the EV is indeed cheaper, for people where I live it’s a wash. I don’t find charging on trips to be particularly inconvenient, but most of my trips are less than 500 miles so I may have to charge once or twice en route. In the first 7600 miles on the Y we’ve only used superchargers for 8% of the charging.

Fortunately I spent $34,000 net on 14.58 kW of solar panels making my effective cost 16.5 cents per kWh and I put in enough surplus to run both the Y and Lightning. Since I paid for my system up front I effectively will see no fuel bill for the EV’s. Without the investment in home solar going with EV’s would’ve been a tougher decision.

 

[B177y]

Just saw this on the F150Lightning subreddit:

Maybe a false alarm? Would be good if someone else can confirm this is legit.....

Interesting. I get the platinum not qualifying because of price… but why not the pro?

Read the first page on the tread.

Ok, I re-read the first page... And second.... I re-read this entire thread.

I still can't find why a Pro doesn't qualify for the tax credit