GAWR (axle) stickers for regular/max tow and EB/PB

[BoilerTimmay]

Yes, I got 2 more data points last night after I posted, and one was a 6.5' bed. You can see it has the same rear axle rating as the powerboost 5.5' bed, but not the upgraded front. So far they have all been 4x4 and I'm tracking FX4 as well in case that matters.

Is the 7300# a heavy duty payload?

 

[Crapblaster]

Mine is a King Ranch Tow Tech only. Powerboost, no FX4 and the rating is 7350.

 

[kavm]

Is the 7300# a heavy duty payload?

It is almost certainly GVWR and not the payload. You need to subtract the GCW (Gross Curb Weight) to get to the payload. If PB - the payload is a number (significantly) below 1830#.

 

[daemonic3]

This thread kind of died but I want to revive it to revisit the axle ratings and see if we can reverse engineer those rear axle ratings between regular and max tow.

I was putting the white stickers in a chart with the variables I thought were relevant, and I have found TWO flavors of 3.5 EB maxtow axles, but both with GVWR of 7050#. Understood that the rear axle may not be the weakest link in the chain, but they DO give you a GVWR spec bump in the 157" wheel base. Take a look at this!

That new entry where I list the trim is from this KR at the dealership that I personally took a photo of, so I know everything about it to be accurate.

 

[Knickell]

Hey all, it has been bothering me for a while that we've talked about the upgraded, heavier rear axle for the max tow package, but also discussed how on paper it only TAKES AWAY from the payload as it is heavier. This seems counterintuitive! Why would there be an axle upgrade if there is no benefit passed to the specs of the truck?? It is causing many people to try to optimize for cost and payload by avoiding max tow...

So let's see if it is just a side effect of the GVWR not changing (therefore Ford not re-rolling the payload spec), while in fact the GAWR of the rear axle increased.

In the payload sticker threads we've been paying attention to the yellow payload stickers, but now I am requesting the WHITE door stickers that show the individual GAWR's. If no window sticker, we can manually type the VIN and find out if the truck includes max or regular tow package.

Thanks in advance!

(also I am KICKING myself for last week at the dealer where 2 XLT EB's were side by side - one with max tow and one regular tow, I only took a pic of the yellow payload stickers!! grrr...)

I’m not an engineer, but wouldn’t you think your payload would subsequently go up with an upgraded rear axle?

 

[daemonic3]

I’m not an engineer, but wouldn’t you think your payload would subsequently go up with an upgraded rear axle?

Yes and no! I suspect payload is a formula based on a MIN() type function. It is only as good as the weakest link in the entire chain.

BUT, I am not taking any risks and if the axle is more capable I WANT IT despite what the payload formula kicks out. If you go over a bump/dip, there are temporary forces on that rear axle that can stress it and I want that margin for sure. Ford is going to rate those based on those kind of excursions, but still, I want the more capable axle despite the perceived payload penalty due to how the formula is calculated.

I'm very happy to see the axles on the PB at 3900+4150, even if GVWR is only 7350. Compare that to an EB of 3600+3800, if the PB weight hit is 550# and it is distributed across both axles evenly, you can see that it is not as brutal as one may think. However, the chassis/frame or tire ratings may be the limiter and the reason they don't bump the GVWR by say, 600#. I'm going to be weighing and adjusting my WDH (the FX4 sits 1.5" higher than my current 4x2) when I hook up and I'll see what I'm getting on each axle (steer/drive/trailer)

 

[solarity]

The frames are the following:
LD
HD
HPP

One of the spec sheets shows which wheel bases have which frames, but doesn't really show how any tow packages impact this. My only assumption is that the HDPP uses the heavier HPP. Seeing that the there are HPP frames for 145 WB super crew, this shows me that HPP are not just for HDPP. Maybe I should see if there is any correlation with HPP with PowerBoost as that has 300lbs more of GVWR on the 4x4 145 WB than the 3.5L EB.

Max Tow apparently gets the 3.73 and 3.55 HP axles as does HDPP.

 

[Power Kid]

I still maintain u can't get 3.73 without hdpp. There is a glitch w b&p, may be corrected by now? But according to the last order guide I looked at not possible.

 

[solarity]

I still maintain u can't get 3.73 without hdpp. There is a glitch w b&p, may be corrected by now? But according to the last order guide I looked at not possible.

There are a lot of ways to get 3.73 w/o HDPP. The best way is to get a higher trim or ask the dealer if it is a bug. There is no HDPP on the Lariat or higher, though you can get 3.73 with a lot of builds.

In regards to frames, I wrote this up today. The only things associated with engine is the following:
2.7PP = 2.7L EB
MT = 3.5L or 5.0
HDPP = 3.5L or 5.0
PB = 3.5L Power Boost

 

[daemonic3]

The frames are the following:
LD
HD
HPP

One of the spec sheets shows which wheel bases have which frames, but doesn't really show how any tow packages impact this. My only assumption is that the HDPP uses the heavier HPP. Seeing that the there are HPP frames for 145 WB super crew, this shows me that HPP are not just for HDPP. Maybe I should see if there is any correlation with HPP with PowerBoost as that has 300lbs more of GVWR on the 4x4 145 WB than the 3.5L EB.

Max Tow apparently gets the 3.73 and 3.55 HP axles as does HDPP.

Exactly! I cannot figure out what variables get you a stronger frame, since they only list it by size and drive (but often list 2 options). I do suspect that powerboost gets the HPP frame but that is a guess. If it *does* then powerboost is as capable as you can get except the HDPP gets a 4800# rear axle and tires rated 2100/2400 (front/rear) vs 2025/2249.

 

[solarity]

So one of my last statements is incorrect, the Max Tow does NOT get the same rear axel as the HDPP, as the HDPP is rated at 4800lbs. The max tow that I have seen only 4150lbs.

The only benefits you get with Max Tow is an upgraded bumper and rear brakes for a PB as it can't use the 36 gal and already has a 3.73 elocker.

Even the trailer tow seems like a bad deal as it costs $1000 and gives you only a solid stabilizer bar for some higher trim builds.

 

[BoilerTimmay]

So one of my last statements is incorrect, the Max Tow does NOT get the same rear axel as the HDPP, as the HDPP is rated at 4800lbs. The max tow that I have seen only 4150lbs.

The only benefits you get with Max Tow is an upgraded bumper and rear brakes for a PB as it can't use the 36 gal and already has a 3.73 elocker.

Even the trailer tow seems like a bad deal as it costs $1000 and gives you only a solid stabilizer bar for some higher trim builds.

The max tow also gets a three leaf spring rear suspension compared to two.

I agree the value isn’t there, especially at 1995. I got it for 1350 but it is on a PB. The Ecoboost has value with the e-locker and tank, just sucks that I really wanted the tow mirrors after switching to PB. The extra towing capability/safety is a nice to have. I think it’s in high demand so Ford is gouging folks on it.

 

[solarity]

The max tow also gets a three leaf spring rear suspension compared to two.

I agree the value isn’t there, especially at 1995. I got it for 1350 but it is on a PB. The Ecoboost has value with the e-locker and tank, just sucks that I really wanted the tow mirrors after switching to PB. The extra towing capability/safety is a nice to have. I think it’s in high demand so Ford is gouging folks on it.

The rear leaf springs correlate with the axel weight rating 3800 or less get 2, while anything above that gets 3 leaf springs.

The Max Tow used to be a bargain for the EB, not anymore due to the price hike. Though having the max tow on the PB has very little use cases as most trailers at that weight will exceed the payload capability of the PB. It would make more sense if it used the HDPP, though that would canabilize Ford's Super Duty business. Even worst we lose what little payload we have to a bumper that can't really be uses to its fullest extent.

Most of these packages only really benefit lower trims, as you go up the trim levels, most of the packages give you a fraction of improvement as most of the items are already included at that level. I had to spend hours of research to only find out that trailer tow only gives you a solid stabilizer bar over tow technology package.

 

[BoilerTimmay]

The rear leaf springs correlate with the axel weight rating 3800 or less get 2, while anything above that gets 3 leaf springs.

The Max Tow used to be a bargain for the EB, not anymore due to the price hike. Though having the max tow on the PB has very little use cases as most trailers at that weight will exceed the payload capability of the PB. It would make more sense if it used the HDPP, though that would canabilize Ford's Super Duty business. Even worst we lose what little payload we have to a bumper that can't really be uses to its fullest extent.

Most of these packages only really benefit lower trims, as you go up the trim levels, most of the packages give you a fraction of improvement as most of the items are already included at that level. I had to spend hours of research to only find out that trailer tow only gives you a solid stabilizer bar over tow technology package.

Yep. Then you have me who wanted trailer tow at a minimum, and for $350 (before the hike) got the additional “safety” features for a few hundred bucks and it’s better than next to nothing for trailer tow.

 

[Wengg77]

I'm ordering a Lariat, supercrew, 145wb, 5.0, FX4 for the purpose of towing a travel trailer. I know my biggest limiting factor will be payload in the truck. Trailers I'm looking at won't be more than 8000lbs loaded however the tongue weight could be 800-900lbs.

I'm really wondering if I need to get the Max Tow Package for the increased rear axle weight rating even though I don't need the extra trailer towing capacity and it actually hurts my truck payload capacity. The standard axle rating of 3800lbs seems weak. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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