Pro Power Ground Fault

[FLSpartan04]

Likewise, @flyct! Always a pleasure to meet others as enthusiastic about their truck as I am! Now I am semi looking forward to my first real chance to use it (minus the storm that will likely necessitate its use).

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[Hammick]

Following up on this older thread. We power our house daily with our Lightning when in town. It will throw a ground fault if the charger is attached to the truck. Has anyone been successful using Pro Power to power their house while the charger is attached? I'd really like to be able to leave the charger attached. That way when I forget to turn the truck off for the night at least it will still charge during the cheap midnight to six AM rates.

 

[Maquis]

Following up on this older thread. We power our house daily with our Lightning when in town. It will throw a ground fault if the charger is attached to the truck. Has anyone been successful using Pro Power to power their house while the charger is attached? I'd really like to be able to leave the charger attached. That way when I forget to turn the truck off for the night at least it will still charge during the cheap midnight to six AM rates.

Did you have to unhook the ground conductor in order to get PP to work (without the charger connected)? If so, the ground that you disconnected is now connected again when you plug in the charger.
If this describes your scenario, there isn’t an easy fix, because the charger will fault without a ground connection.

 

[EVpower]

There is a ground connection on the charging cable, so the truck is grounded when connected for charging. Is it practical to move the feed to the charger upstream from the utility disconnect?

Steve

 

[Hammick]

Did you have to unhook the ground conductor in order to get PP to work (without the charger connected)? If so, the ground that you disconnected is now connected again when you plug in the charger.
If this describes your scenario, there isn’t an easy fix, because the charger will fault without a ground connection.

Thanks Maquis the makes sense. Yes I eliminated the ground from the PP to my automatic transfer switch. I don't think my transfer switch isolates the neutral even though I thought it did when I first bought it.

For now unplugging the charger isn't end of the world as we have to go to the truck every night and every morning to turn it off and on. If they ever push the OTA to be able to use the PP with the truck off I'll probably look for a different Transfer switch.

 

[Hammick]

There is a ground connection on the charging cable, so the truck is grounded when connected for charging. Is it practical to move the feed to the charger upstream from the utility disconnect?

Steve

Not sure I'm following. The 60 amp breaker for our charger is located in our main panel. Our sub panel is connected to the automatic transfer switch and runs off PP or mains power.

 

[EVpower]

Got it. The grounds are still connected between the EVSE and earth ground through the sub panel.

Does your ATS have auxiliary contacts which close when PPOB is the selected? If so, the ATS could control a contactor to cut off power to the truck charger when the Lightning is the power source.

Steve

 

[Maquis]

Got it. The grounds are still connected between the EVSE and earth ground through the sub panel.

Does your ATS have auxiliary contacts which close when PPOB is the selected? If so, the ATS could control a contactor to cut off power to the truck charger when the Lightning is the power source.

Steve

Connection to earth is irrelevant. It’s the neutral to ground bond that causes the issue.

Cutting off power won’t disconnect the EGC (equipment grounding conductor) nor should it.

 

[Hammick]

Got it. The grounds are still connected between the EVSE and earth ground through the sub panel.

Does your ATS have auxiliary contacts which close when PPOB is the selected? If so, the ATS could control a contactor to cut off power to the truck charger when the Lightning is the power source.

Steve

Yes it is a 50a ATS specifically for RVs. Thanks for any advice on how I can remote power my 48a Autel charger from these contacts.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B63WXZYZ?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

 

[EVpower]

@Hammick from the picture of your ATS, it appears that it also switches the neutral conductor. If that is the case, the need becomes shutting off the EVSE without the inconvenience of unplugging the Lightning. You would not want to be charging the truck from its own battery.

The picture also shows what may be auxiliary contacts on the ATS. Check with the manufacturer to confirm those are available to open the EVSE line connections with an additional contactor.

You also may want to ask Tech Support if the neutral switch in the ATS is a make before break connection. That is desirable to avoid even a brief open neutral condition.

Steve

 

[Hammick]

@Hammick from the picture of your ATS, it appears that it also switches the neutral conductor. If that is the case, the need becomes shutting off the EVSE without the inconvenience of unplugging the Lightning. You would not want to be charging the truck from its own battery.

The picture also shows what may be auxiliary contacts on the ATS. Check with the manufacturer to confirm those are available to open the EVSE line connections with an additional contactor.

You also may want to ask Tech Support if the neutral switch in the ATS is a make before break connection. That is desirable to avoid even a brief open neutral condition.

Steve

Thanks. The EVSE cannot charge from truck power. It's on the main panel which is grid only. No option to contact the manufacturer. Amazon generic switch. How can I check to see if it's switching the neutral? I get continuity between the neutral and the ground/chassis of the transfer switch.

 

[P-38]

From the images on Amazon it does appear that the switch switches the neutral. So it should be switching over to the neutral from the truck and if the ground from the truck were landed on the ground bar in the ATS box all should be fine as long as neutral and ground don't meet in the sub panel (or beyond in the circuits that this feeds).

First step would be to find where the neutral and ground are meeting in the sub panel or in the ATS. With pro power disconnected and the grid off both contactors should be open. Do you have continuity between neutral and ground on the bottom side of the contactors? If yes then you have an issue in the sub panel or beyond, solve that and pro power should work with the ground wire terminated as it should be. There could be more than 1 issue in the sub panel.

If no then is there continuity between the neutral and ground on the top side of the contactors? The grid one should not matter for pro power and infact should have a connection. The pro power contactor should not have. That would need to be corrected.

Assuming we get pro power working as intended (ground wire connected) then we can move on...

With the EVSE in the main panel but yet
connected to the truck during your ideal situation...I'll have to look up your EVSE as mine does not have a neutral connection, only ground...but that ground would meet neutral in the main grid panel...and would meet ground in the ATS. So neutral does meet ground...but that neutral should not meet the truck neutral ever so it should be fine...But I'm not super familiar with the J1772 connector not the truck inverter wiring, maybe they cross up neutral and ground...

First let's get pro power working as it should since the switch is switching neutral and then work on the ideal situation.

 

[Hammick]

From the images on Amazon it does appear that the switch switches the neutral. So it should be switching over to the neutral from the truck and if the ground from the truck were landed on the ground bar in the ATS box all should be fine as long as neutral and ground don't meet in the sub panel (or beyond in the circuits that this feeds).

First step would be to find where the neutral and ground are meeting in the sub panel or in the ATS. With pro power disconnected and the grid off both contactors should be open. Do you have continuity between neutral and ground on the bottom side of the contactors? If yes then you have an issue in the sub panel or beyond, solve that and pro power should work with the ground wire terminated as it should be. There could be more than 1 issue in the sub panel.

If no then is there continuity between the neutral and ground on the top side of the contactors? The grid one should not matter for pro power and infact should have a connection. The pro power contactor should not have. That would need to be corrected.

Assuming we get pro power working as intended (ground wire connected) then we can move on...

With the EVSE in the main panel but yet
connected to the truck during your ideal situation...I'll have to look up your EVSE as mine does not have a neutral connection, only ground...but that ground would meet neutral in the main grid panel...and would meet ground in the ATS. So neutral does meet ground...but that neutral should not meet the truck neutral ever so it should be fine...But I'm not super familiar with the J1772 connector not the truck inverter wiring, maybe they cross up neutral and ground...

First let's get pro power working as it should since the switch is switching neutral and then work on the ideal situation.

Thanks. I'll have to dig into this at the end of March as we are headed on a long trip in a few days. I'm not that concerned about it as we won't be in this house for more than a few more years and I'm removing everything before we sell as I did it all myself without getting permits. Retirement house will have professionally installed V2H and full solar.

 

[Maquis]

Thanks. I'll have to dig into this at the end of March as we are headed on a long trip in a few days. I'm not that concerned about it as we won't be in this house for more than a few more years and I'm removing everything before we sell as I did it all myself without getting permits. Retirement house will have professionally installed V2H and full solar.

I agree, that TS is switching the neutral. You probably have something amiss in one of the circuits in the backup subpanel. Here is how I would troubleshoot:

Reconnect the ground wire between ProPower and the transfer switch.
Switch off all breakers in the subpanel.
Kill main power causing the ATS to switch over to PP. The PP should not trip on ground fault with all breakers off. If it does, something is wired wrong in the transfer switch.
Turn on one breaker at a time in the subpanel until the PP indicates a ground fault. That is the circuit with a problem.

 

[P-38]

@Henry Ford and @Maquis ...

Can you guys get on the same page about breakers on or off and GFCI in truck tripping? . I mean I thought I learned something on the 3rd... But then unlearned it tonight. Did you just forget Maquis?

This is said in jest...not to be a dick.

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