So... How about them gas prices?

[kevdog0710]

Did not pack enough popcorn for this conversation.

Anyone want to hear my families experience of owning a Tesla Model X since April 2017?

I do. I have a cousin who owns a 1st year Tesla. He has a new Tesla on order. I assume his experience is good considering the length of ownership and that he is buying another one

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[GregBC]

Here is a pretty good video that covers this issue:

Thanks for the link! Nicely done vid; this is how it’s done! I took a course at MIT that looked at energy usage for manufacturing; it focused on exergy life cycle analysis of the processes/usage/disposal actually but the methodology was the same.
(not to hijacker’s the thread, but fairly conservative estimates for a wind turbine was the exergy payback was measured in 1-2 years and CO2 emission payback was measured in months, FYI )

Anyway, this vid is the best way to view these things from an environmental standpoint IMO. Costs don’t always capture true environmental costs (carbon taxes yearn to do so but that’s another hot topic for another calm day, k?) and may never do so (not without govt intervention, as historically the cheapest/easiest products aren’t always so good for us, eg asbestos, lead, etc etc etc).

 

[LightningShow]

The invasion of the mouth breathers. Why do you guys care so much?

I love how you guys have no understanding of the oil market. "Just pump it ourselves". Yea, and then that company is going to sell it to the highest bidder around the world. Unless of course you are going to nationalize oil.

How are EVs not mainstream? I see a couple everyday. Gone are the days when seeing a Tesla was a rare occurrence.

EV demand far outstrips current production.

EVs are expensive, so are trucks.

Tolls. Tolls are the future.

Current EVs may not fit YOUR current lifestyle and needs, no one cares.

Now excuse me while I drop 1k on a turbo leaking coolant that needs a $12 replacement fitting.

Anyone who has ever driven around Norway can tell you what point of use road tax looks like. Road tolls are astronomical there. I would visit one of my customers there pretty regularly. The facility was less than an hour from Oslo, tolls for the round trip were $50.

 

[MTNMN]

Thank you for this well thought out post, rebutting most of the anti EV noise. Only thing I can add re affordability is of course the substantial savings of no longer having to pay for gas. It makes sense at $2 per gallon, and even more so now! For many people it’s cheaper to finance or lease a new Nissan Leaf than to keep driving their current gas hog.

Ya but then theyre in a crap box Nissan Leaf.

Who the heck wants to drive that POS.

Ill still with my ICE thanks

 

[Pete6114]

I'm definitely driving less and am consolidating my errands.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Anyone who has ever driven around Norway can tell you what point of use road tax looks like. Road tolls are astronomical there. I would visit one of my customers there pretty regularly. The facility was less than an hour from Oslo, tolls for the round trip were $50.

This is great actually, given that 65% of all new cars sold in Norway are EVs. So it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Anit-EV noise yet their only solution is for everyone to go buy a Nissan Leaf.

Might want to work on your talking points a little, if your only solution is for people to buy a crappy, stripped down Nissan Leaf you won't win many arguments.

Gas prices are winning this argument for me these days. Leaf is basic transportation, good enough for me. Got mine used and it’s literally paid for itself on gas savings over the last five years. I’ll take a free car any day!

 

[RickLightning]

I know this will be a very unpopular "big business" idea, but I wish they'd simply charge more to DCFC. I use it so infrequently (I've supercharged all of 42 times in 29 months of owning a Tesla) that the cost really isn't a big deal when it is so rare. And my car is only rated at 242 miles of range on a full charge. With 300+ miles of range I'd need to DCFC even less.

Not that I'd look for companies to gouge the public, but DCFC is still cheaper than gas to travel even at 30-35c/kwh. The higher margin may incentivize companies to build more charging stations if they can see an ROI faster. Just having the option to charge in an area with no infrastructure is worth the premium. It was kind of a chore to work out a charging strategy during a trip to the beach in NC last year due to the lack of DCFC and hotels with L2 charging available.

The market will decide (and regulators) how much they can charge. The reality is that the breakeven is enormous.

"Kind of a chore to work out a charging strategy" will be the reality until this $5B is spent, kicking off a huge wave of installations. More will be needed. But you're not going to see a huge amount of stations near the beach in NC before you see one every 50 miles on the interstates.

 

[LightningShow]

Gas prices are winning this argument for me these days. Leaf is basic transportation, good enough for me. Got mine used and it’s literally paid for itself on gas savings over the last five years. I’ll take a free car any day!

EVs are better driving vehicles as well. My Bolt is much nicer to drive than any commuter car/midsized SUV I've driven...and I've driven a lot of them. I got it for $24k last summer with less than 20k miles.

 

[vandy1981]

I know this will be a very unpopular "big business" idea, but I wish they'd simply charge more to DCFC.

I'm not aware of any regulations that direct pricing of DCFC, aside from some states requiring per minute charging instead of per kWh pricing. The bipartisan infrastructure bill also does not dictate pricing for funded charging station projects. Charging networks can and will charge whatever they want. As stations become more crowded I think we'll see surge pricing and/or timed reservation systems creeping into the mix.

 

[MTNMN]

EVs are better driving vehicles as well. My Bolt is much nicer to drive than any commuter car/midsized SUV I've driven...and I've driven a lot of them. I got it for $24k last summer with less than 20k miles.

Are you really gonna try to convince us the BOLT offers a nicer driving experience than say an M5 or A6??

Are you that delusional?

Sure it may drive nice for a "budget" EV, but that is not the driving experience I enjoy that is for sure!!

 

[BCM]

Not higher than the original "80% coal" estimate. The total US breakdown is ~61% fossil fuels... and falling.



Why does the infrastructure have to be set up for something that won't happen for ~20 years in order to buy it today? Even if 50% of *new* car sales are EVs by 2030, typical car lifetime is ~12 years, so it will be a LONG time before the whole US fleet is anywhere near 100% EV. Not buying an EV now because the grid isn't ready for 100% EVs would be like refusing to buy clothes that fit you now because in 10 years you *might* be fatter.




Why? Why would I buy a hybrid when an EV can charge at my solar-powered house and works well for all the ways in which I use it?

Because the grid isn't designed for a theoretical overnight switch to 100% EVs that is definitely not going to happen that way?

Not everyone has solar panels at their house or want them. I’m not knocking you, you do your thing and others will do theirs. Just don’t push your green new deal man made global warming crap on everyone else.

 

[JohnMcClane]

Sure, but I don't know that everyone else does.

I’ll talk if only one person is interested in listening.

We love the car, 8 year power train warranty is still active although it hasn’t been needed. I was fortunate enough to have my breaker panel in the garage right next to where we park the X. So I hooked up the 40 AMP myself, charges it fast enough. Not a supercharger obviously, but I’ve gotten a full 220 mile charge from almost zero in under 8 hours. It’s insanely comfortable, I hope the Lariat I have on order is close in comfort. It’s my wife’s daily to and from work, it gets the kids to daycare. It takes us on the short hauls within the state. It’s gotten us to and from Chicago a few times (5ish hours). The lane assist is huge with reducing driver fatigue (I know this thread isn’t about that, but people tend to hate driver assists until they use them).

It’s also one of the reasons we decided to upgrade the pickup truck. If you’ve travelled with infants/toddlers/young kids(are we there yet?), you know a 4 hour drive beats the bloody crap out of a 5 hour drive. Not to mention the measure on driver fatigue. Now some of you LRs may be able to do it all on one charge, but if you’re doing a 300+ mile haul and need to at least charge once, it’s reducing time at your destination and increasing travel time, now if it’s just you and a partner traveling or just yourself, you may enjoy the breaks, but if you’re trying to get from A to B as quick as possible, stopping to charge will really slow you down.

I like the lightning, if I wasn’t doing a 300 mile drive with a 12 ft 5000lb trailer semi regularly and didn’t already have a EV in the garage, I would strongly consider it.

Point I guess I’m trying to make is ICE and EVs serve different purposes in my family and I’m sure it’s different for different people/families. We shouldn’t be cheering for high oil prices, trust me, that won’t have a positive impact on EV prices either. A surge in demand for oil generally correlates with with a surge in energy demand/prices.

So while the cost per mile of an EV probably won’t increase at the cost per mile of an ICE, why is it some kind of competition? Neither ICE or EV are benefitting from it.

 

[Ruination]

Ill take a car or truck i actually enjoy driving over savings and low cost,

Why are all of you soo cheap? LOL

If someone gave you free rent to live in a turd would you do it just because it saves money?

Cheap...in a forum for the F-150 lightning.

Have you even driven any EVs? The driving experience is soooo much better, even on the bolt.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

If someone gave you free rent to live in a turd would you do it just because it saves money?

Funny you should ask, we did live basically rent-free in a place. I was able to save up quite a lot of extra $$$ for a really nice house as all the payments we saved up allowed us a huge downpayment on our house.

As it is, we spend 99% of our driving time using a Kia Soul EV+. Its pretty gutless by EV standards, but not by gas. Even with the bad battery (due to be replaced under warranty) its stupidly cheap to drive.

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