Tesla is disrespecting Ford owners

[Texas Dan]

I assume that all of you that are making excuses for Tesla have already received your Tesla NACS adapters. Spoiler alert; you are in a very small minority. Ask the majority of us that have their Tesla adapters postponed three or four times how they feel about Tesla’s games.

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[BabyDoc1012]

I assume that all of you that are making excuses for Tesla have already received your Tesla NACS adapters. Spoiler alert; you are in a very small minority. Ask the majority of us that have their Tesla adapters postponed three or four times how they feel about Tesla’s games.

I have not received my Tesla adapter as of yet. So you don’t even have your adapter yet and you are complaining about not being able to use a supercharger? Seriously, first world problems! Entitlement gone awry! If you wanted to use superchargers, you should have bought a Tesla. I bought my truck in April, well after the announcement that Ford would have access to superchargers, but that was not even a selling factor to me. It’s a nice to have, but not a feature. There are no excuses for Tesla, it’s their network, that their customers foot the bill for. Sounds like an ICE F-150 would be a better fit for you because then you wouldn’t be disrespected by Tesla anymore.

 

[Texas Dan]

We got access to 15,300 SuperChargers. Electrify America has less than 5,000...

ding, ding, ding. Best spin on the thread. Listing charger numbers makes Supercharger infrastructure look really impressive when in all actually it’s the number of locations that matter more.

 

[RickLightning]

ding, ding, ding. Best spin on the thread. Listing charger numbers makes Supercharger infrastructure look really impressive when in all actually it’s the number of locations that matter more.

You're just showing how uninformed you are about this stuff.

Electrify America has more than 900 stations and over 4,000 DC fast charging connectors as of December 2023.

There are over 2,200 Tesla SuperCharge locations with over 25,000 connectors. Since we got access to 15,300 (plus over 700 Magic Docks), lets do the math. 16,000 / 25,000 = 64% of all Tesla chargers. 2,200 x 64% = 1,408.

An additional roughly 1,400 LOCATIONS.

In Texas, it may not matter. In Wyoming, it may not matter. In many areas, it matters a lot.

 

[TomB985]

I very clearly remember how so many on this forum promoted Tesla Superchargers back when it was just talk even though they were warned that Tesla would play games and could not be trusted. Now people on this forum are making excuses for Tesla’s bad behavior. All I’m saying is that as long as we are dependent on Tesla for DCFC we should expect to be disappointed.

I was here with my camper twice this week on a trip I couldn’t make without Supercharger access. That’s not a game to me.

 

[RickKeen]

I was here with my camper twice this week on a trip I couldn’t make without Supercharger access. That’s not a game to me.

Yes, there are some key chargers for the less urban parts of many States.
Like this one in Onamia, MN that opens up a large part of central MN to EV's. Especially when towing.
(I used that exact stall hauling my boat to a family event at Lake Emily, MN.)

 

[RickKeen]

Tesla is playing the classic monopolistic practice of tying their products together, They sell EVs and they sell Fast Charging. It is Illegal for them to use their dominant market position in charging networks to gain and advantage in selling EVs by tying the products together.

So under threat of antitrust enforcement, they caved. But they are still dragging their feet. Just enough not to get in trouble, but still enough to create an advantage for their EV sales vs competitors.

And they also have the excuse of "its a technical upgrade problem, not an intentional monopolistic practice."

 

[Zprime29]

Tesla disrespects everyone equally (ask their employees on the SC team). No need to over think it. All things DCFC require patience.

 

[Jiji]

Tesla is playing the classic monopolistic practice of tying their products together, They sell EVs and they sell Fast Charging. It is Illegal for them to use their dominant market position in charging networks to gain and advantage in selling EVs by tying the products together.

I am no fan of Tesla but given they had to bootstrap a charging network to support their growing base of EVs, I’m not convinced they abused their natural monopoly of charging Tesla EVs. Their monopoly was earned being a first mover and efficient producer, for many years you could purchase a Tesla or Nissan Leaf and without a national charging network sales would have quickly stagnated.

In fact I think opening up their fast, convenient, frictionless charging network to non-Teslas might be a greater abuse of monopoly power as it directly threatens EA and others. If Tesla were to open all locations (which they can’t since many are incompatible) with Tesla pricing (which is lower but they charge non-Teslas more), I would be much more concerned.

 

[KevinC]

I'd just like to know more of the details of Fords arrangement. I can't Imagine there weren't a few lawyers involved detailing what access would be available. Ford may be hesitant to break down the details publicly to avoid embarrassing Tesla and hindering future access. Still, I'd like to know to decide if it's actually worth getting the AtoZ Right now. Most of the Tesla chargers in MO are not usable. If it's going to stay that way then nevermind.

 

[RickLightning]

I'd just like to know more of the details of Fords arrangement. I can't Imagine there weren't a few lawyers involved detailing what access would be available. Ford may be hesitant to break down the details publicly to avoid embarrassing Tesla and hindering future access. Still, I'd like to know to decide if it's actually worth getting the AtoZ Right now. Most of the Tesla chargers in MO are not usable. If it's going to stay that way then nevermind.

Over a dozen you can use. https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bo...oom=8&filters=party,nacs&search=Missouri, USA

 

[invertedspear]

I am no fan of Tesla but given they had to bootstrap a charging network to support their growing base of EVs, I’m not convinced they abused their natural monopoly of charging Tesla EVs. Their monopoly was earned being a first mover and efficient producer, for many years you could purchase a Tesla or Nissan Leaf and without a national charging network sales would have quickly stagnated.

In fact I think opening up their fast, convenient, frictionless charging network to non-Teslas might be a greater abuse of monopoly power as it directly threatens EA and others. If Tesla were to open all locations (which they can’t since many are incompatible) with Tesla pricing (which is lower but they charge non-Teslas more), I would be much more concerned.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but just because a monopoly is "earned" as you put it, does not mean it's OK. At some point Tesla needs to be recognized as a vertically integrated monopoly, and the SC network should be split off into a separate company. IMO the number 1 reason for Tesla to have allowed other companies to use their charger was to avoid this classification, and I'm willing to bet at this point they probably avoid that designation, or will as they allow additional OEMs to use their charge network.

I'd say Solar/Whole Home power should be split off as well, but that won't be until we have some universal standards to whole-home battery systems and Tesla doesn't allow theirs to be back fed from anything other than a Tesla.

How and Why Tesla got to being a considered a monopoly, and even if they really should be considered one would make a great case study for a business major. Probably a bigger topic than is proper for our little forum

 

[Jiji]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but just because a monopoly is "earned" as you put it, does not mean it's OK.

I am no lawyer but since there many perfectly legal ways to gain a monopoly position, it isn’t a problem until you abuse it to punish competitors and you start getting the attention of government or regulatory agencies, think Microsoft and others and now Google.

Which raises the case of SpaceX. They have a first mover advantage with reusable spacecraft that greatly reduced the cost to orbit. Probably a monopoly but I don’t think they are risk yet for just being successful.

 

[Cray5]

The main reason Tesla opened up their charging network to other manufacturers is to gain access to federal funding (infrastructure bill). Once a deal was made with the White House to open the network Tesla could then receive federal grants. This enables Tesla to expand the supercharger network using federal funding, reducing risk to Tesla.

 

[KevinC]

Over a dozen you can use. https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=42.37389950189355,-92.27946581070942,38.573007439770514,-95.98185838883442&zoom=8&filters=party,nacs&search=Missouri, USA

MO is a decent sized state and a dozen "accessible" chargers in the wrong places doesnt help. Especially when half of them are within 20 minutes from my house. MO overall has fairly anemic charging all around.

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