The Hits Just Keep on Coming (Ford News)

[Ventorum94]

FORD: Whelp, we're selling out of Lightnings, but the MachE is a luxury car in a market where people can't afford new luxury cars. Should we make more F150L Pros? Maybe bring back a cheap Focus EV for people on a budget? What about making an EV version of the Aerostar for people who need something smaller than an E-transit and seats in the back?

Nope, let's just declare EVs a failure and scale back production.

I suspect the difference in manufacturing cost between a Pro and a Platimum, or a Mach E and a (hypothetical) Focus EV is relatively trivial, the major cost being the battery pack and electric drivetrain, not the upholstery or the audio or the bits of trim. At the end of the day, it will have to become profitable to be sustainable, and I don’t think under-$50k vehicles are likely to be part of that path to profitability (any more than cheap ICE cars make Ford profitable today- the business is basically to build and sell as many $50k+ ICE trucks as possible).

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[WhipSticks]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never heard anyone rural buying a truck saying that they want a truck that can only go 100 miles or less in the winter; People buy trucks that they can use 100% of the time, not 90%.

I think Ford should come out with an electric Ranger and an electric Maverick. That way they could cut costs a lot, and for the people who want to be able to just haul manure and mulch and mattress to the dump, not tow, those would sell pretty well I think, if they had enough range.

But for full-size trucks, it's gotta deliver the goods. Otherwise, leave it in the city parking garage. Most of the people I talk to say the current Lightning ER just doesn't have the towing range, or winter range, to justify it. It has to take them to work every day, but also has to take them hunting in Colorado or tow their boat. Especially if they have to pay 80K for a Lariat because Pro's and XLT's can't be had.

For me, I love it, BUT, am having to get a smaller RV trailer to tow reasonably, compared to the F150 gas truck we had before this.

First, if you bought an F150 Lightning with long-range towing in mind, I think you are doing it wrong. If you are looking to tow up to 100 miles a day, it's doable. The vast, vast majority of truck owners don't tow anything, ever. Suburban DIYers and middle aged weekend warriors make up a MUCH larger market for pickups than actual ranchers. Contractors and tradesmen generally work in a radius that a Lightning will serve well, as long as they can charge at home.

Second, NOBODY is paying anywhere near 80k for a Lariat ATM. $65k is about where most of them are going right now... at worst, low $70s if you don't qualify for the tax rebates. Roll in total cost-of-ownership and the "80k" truck is a pretty attractive buy. Sale numbers are affected more by interest rates, range anxiety and charging infrastructure.

 

[RickLightning]

In 40 degrees F, my Lightning Lariat ER drops from 2+ to 1.3-4 at 65 mph. So that is almost a 50%drop. On trips that means charging every 2 hours. ie every 130 miles.

My 2023 Lariat had a 36 gal. tank so fuel stops were about every 400 miles.

Think about that.

Then there's something wrong with your truck, or your data, or you're blasting the heat at 75 degrees.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never heard anyone rural buying a truck saying that they want a truck that can only go 100 miles or less in the winter; People buy trucks that they can use 100% of the time, not 90%.

My suggestion was targeted for a smaller commuter car the “Geo Metro” of the day, but I could definitely see some suburbanites that would love to see a Maverick sized EV truck that could do around 150 miles. . Then Ford could bring back the Ford Courier nameplate .

 

[Ventorum94]

Then there's something wrong with your truck, or your data, or you're blasting the heat at 75 degrees.

The seat heaters w/cloth upholstery in my XLT are pure luxury- never before had anything with seat heaters that wasn’t leather- but the feeling with the cloth upholstery is more like an electric blanket. The warmth is deep, not superficial. Best way to cabin comfort is to heat the occupants, not the airspace.

 

[Grease Lightning]

In 40 degrees F, my Lightning Lariat ER drops from 2+ to 1.3-4 at 65 mph. So that is almost a 50%drop. On trips that means charging every 2 hours. ie every 130 miles.

My 2023 Lariat had a 36 gal. tank so fuel stops were about every 400 miles.

Think about that.

I think there is something wrong with your Lightning. I just did a 140 mile each way all highway trip at 40 degrees and my average was 2.2 mpkW. .

And math wise, that you show is closer to around a 30-40% drop unless you are besting the best on the forum. Most people average 2.2-2.3 at 65 and 2.0 at 70.

 

[Grease Lightning]

There is a very small % of people that have that long of a commute - miles wise, at least. For many people, having one of their 2 cars with a mileage of 120 miles is very doable - if they are in the "burbs" then there is a much higher likelihood of being able to plug in at home...

I never thought my suggestion of a smaller and cheaper urban commuter would be so polarizing. Thanks for getting the idea.

I am equally shocked how many people seem to think that because it won’t work for their use case so there are no one else that could ever want one.

With the help of Google Maps, all of Portland Metro and the surrounding towns is within a bubble of around 50 miles. So I can drive from one extreme side of Oregon’s largest metropolitan area and back in 100 miles.

With those almost 3 million potential customers and the thousands of other cities just like it, yeah Ford would be stupid to look at making an affordable shorter range EV because is doesn’t work for rural people.

(btw I am a rural person, and it is a good business decision for the automakers and I person would consider one as a second car because town is still less than 100 miles round trip. Or here is a mindblow….i would charge the car while out if I need to go 200 miles round trip )

 

[Bwanapete]

I think there is something wrong with your Lightning. I just did a 140 mile each way all highway trip at 40 degrees and my average was 2.2 mpkW. .

And math wise, that you show is closer to around a 30-40% drop unless you are besting the best on the forum. Most people average 2.2-2.3 at 65 and 2.0 at 70.

For what it is worth, my tires are slightly overinflated. Lots of hills, driving at 65 mph to maximize range, heat down to about 60, not using seat heaters or heated steering wheel, frunk full, 4 large mounted tires in bed, and more luggage, plus me, my wife, and an 80 lb german shepherd. Lots of rain, used Blue Cruise much of the time. I will speak with my dealer to see what they think.

 

[luebri]

For what it is worth, my tires are slightly overinflated. Lots of hills, driving at 65 mph to maximize range, heat down to about 60, not using seat heaters or heated steering wheel, frunk full, 4 large mounted tires in bed, and more luggage, plus me, my wife, and an 80 lb german shepherd. Lots of rain, used Blue Cruise much of the time. I will speak with my dealer to see what they think.

I have a full year, so I’ve experienced all 4 seasons, in with 16,000 miles and all season tires the whole time and precondition daily with an insulated garage in winter and my lifetime is 1.8 mpk in fairly mixed city/hwy use so I don’t think 1.4 sounds that odd. Especially dealing with rain and some payload

 

[luebri]

I never thought my suggestion of a smaller and cheaper urban commuter would be so polarizing. Thanks for getting the idea.

Problem is it’s already on the market. It’s called the Chevy Bolt and Chevy is trying to kill it because there is not enough demand or margin to justify it.

We will see if their pivot to a vehicle type with more ICE demand (equinox - small suv vs bolt - subcompact car) will actually move the needle. I personally have my doubts, but we will see.

Either way, there is little demand in America for a subcompact car. EV or ICE. Practical or not.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Problem is it’s already on the market. It’s called the Chevy Bolt and Chevy is trying to kill it because there is not enough demand or margin to justify it.

We will see if their pivot to a vehicle type with more ICE demand (equinox - small suv vs bolt - subcompact car) will actually move the needle. I personally have my doubts, but we will see.

Either way, there is little demand in America for a subcompact car. EV or ICE. Practical or not.

Sorry did you really try to use the Bolt to against what I said? The Bolt is a great car and has great mileage and efficiency, but Chevy hamstrings it by not providing DCFC on all models. Then those that did support DCFC only supported 50kW fast charging. Then if you recall GM had to recall all of the Bolts due to battery issues. So I wonder why they were thinking of offing the car

Even with its faults the Bolt sold an average of over 20,000 cars a year in the USA, or 140,000 cars through 2022…not bad for a failed product . Those numbers beats even the Leaf that came out before

Shockingly about the same volume as our beloved Lightnings.

So using 20,000 sub/compact EV sales at say $25,000 msrp, that is $500,000,000 a year in gross sales. Yeah who would want to even consider that.

 

[luebri]

In

Sorry did you really try to use the Bolt to what I said? The Bolt is a great car and has great mileage and efficiency, but Chevy hamstrings it by not providing DCFC on all models. Then those that did support DCFC only supported 50kW fast charging. Then if you recall GM had to recall all of the Bolts due to battery issues. So I wonder why they were thinking of offing the car

Even with its faults the Bolt sold an average of over 20,000 cars a year in the USA, or 140,000 cars through 2022…not bad for a failed product . Those numbers beats even the Leaf that came out before

Shockingly about the same volume as our beloved Lightnings.

I didn’t say it was a failed product. Chevy did.

I said, Subcompacts of any propulsion will not and have not been popular/successful in any shape or form in the US. That is the point. If automakers thought they could sell them AND MAKE MONEY!!! they would.

Also, I never said lightning has been a successful product for Ford so far. Great product, not successful to date.

 

[RickLightning]

For what it is worth, my tires are slightly overinflated. Lots of hills, driving at 65 mph to maximize range, heat down to about 60, not using seat heaters or heated steering wheel, frunk full, 4 large mounted tires in bed, and more luggage, plus me, my wife, and an 80 lb german shepherd. Lots of rain, used Blue Cruise much of the time. I will speak with my dealer to see what they think.

So you're coming up with your 50% loss with hundreds of pounds of cargo, and driving in the rain, as compared to unloaded and sunny and beautiful?

 

[Newton]

Every ranch is different I suppose but in my experience the farm/ranch trucks never tow anything all that far - maybe the next town over where there is a train depot or the local Co-Op. You don’t really have time to be doing a whole bunch of driving. The people with show horses drive a lot, I suppose and that is probably the market for expensive trucks more than ranches.

 

[FordLightningMan]

Then there's something wrong with your truck, or your data, or you're blasting the heat at 75 degrees.

I had to stop and charge to complete a 144 mile trip with average temperature in the low 30s. 2022 XLT SR, started with 98% charge, would've died about 10 miles from my house if i didn't top off. I get about 110 miles of range dead of winter, about 50% of stated range.

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