This is Ruining Electric Cars [Auto Focus Youtube]

[Blainestang]

I would a start by watching videos produced by non-tesla fan boys. And start watching reality. Teslas firm grip on the EV market, and only chance at world domination is placed squarely in the hands of propaganda masters like this dude.

Half the video was about someone who had a Tesla and was having trouble charging. How was this Tesla propoganda?

I know several tesla owners. They have their own set of 'proprietary' charging issues

What are these unique-to-Tesla issues? "Reality" is that they have some of the same issues (total infrastructure, charging speeds, adapters, infrastructure reliability), but generally the issues are substantially less severe.

and long travel sucks just as bad for them.

LOL, nope.

Is there room for improvement? Absolutely! Is long-distance travel "just as bad" for Teslas on average? No, that's demonstrably false.

Also realize EV's aren't a good fit for many people, and likely never will be for some.

My older generation mother who lives is Wyoming for example.

Wyoming has 1/600 of the US population. It's an extreme outlier. No one in this video or thread has suggested EVs are perfect for everyone or that they have to be anytime soon, so this is a red herring, just like all the nonsense about recycling and emissions and such.

Sponsored

 

[LightningShow]

Tesla’s are an order of magnitude better for roadtripping. This is not debatable. It may be better or worse depending on the specific location. Speaking for my situation, my normal travel route for skiing/recreation (trips ranging from 150-400 miles) has ONE high speed CCS charger about 25 miles north of me. Absolutely none after that. There are FIVE Supercharger stations further north than the last CCS high speed station. There are some slower (50kW) CCS chargers that are well out of the way (well over an hour detour to use any of them).

 

[jimfigler]

Of course I want to see better EV infrastructure. It will happen and to be honest I have not found it to be terrible. I personally would not and did not buy my Lightning or the Kona I had previously as a road trip vehicle. I did found it fun with a feeling of adventure when planning and taking the 4 or 5, 200-300 mile road trips we took in the Kona. But the main purpose of both vehicles is to commute and local errands. With that purpose in mind they are the best. Charge at home when needed and I'm good to go every morning. Love it!

 

[Monkey]

I think you must be thinking only of high population density areas. Let me give you a personal example of how driving cross-country in a non-Tesla is a big deal...even a non-starter.

Not thinking specifically of high population areas, but that's why I had the stipulation of staying along primary highway routes. EA and others have mostly filled the gap on the primary interstate highways, just as Tesla has. EA actually has more charger locations in the USA than Tesla does.

But don't get me wrong here, I think EA sucks balls. My point was that a non-Tesla EV could be driving cross-country now, whereas a few years ago it could not. Sure, there are a lot of EV charging dead zones and certain routes are just not convenient, let alone possible. I spend a lot of time in West Virginia and the entire state is a public EV charger dead-zone. Yet I still see quite a few Teslas there, have seen a few Rivians and a couple Lightnings.

I used to drive my family to Telluride to go skiing from Corpus Christi. In my Expedition, it took about 17 hours driving time, and maybe an hour total fueling and eating. We are road warriors, with a Point A to Point B in the least amount of time mindset.

Hey, I spend LOTS of time in Telluride! Practically grew up there. Anyway, I agree with you on the road tripping, road warrior thing. EV road trips are something I'm not all that fond of at the moment. I've done two in my Lightning since getting it. The first was to drive it back from the out of state dealership where I bought it, so went from Iowa to Colorado, or about 700 miles from A to B. Then the next trip was about 950 miles. Just as with the Tesla, the time added on a trip to charge is huge. It really bites into schedules and I'm not a huge fan of road trips in an ICE vehicle anyway where I only make 1/3 as many stops and they take no more than 10 minutes. Most of the time I just want to get there. If it's more than a 7 to 8 hour drive, I usually fly unless I just need to have my vehicle with me.

My charging experience so far with the Lightning has been pretty abysmal... Both of my road trip routes have had chargers regularly spaced along the route just fine. But this is the part where I say EA sucks balls... The number of improperly working charger or those just not working at all, was unacceptable. None of the NFC or card readers were working on the first trip. Couldn't get the app to activate the charger, had to call EVERY TIME to get my member rate, sometimes I was unsuccessful. Most all the chargers were not running at optimal output, often throttling back to under 40kW.

I know lots of people recommend using ABRP... I can't find any use in it. In my experience, the way it micro-manages charge stops as it plans your route is just infuriating. Plugshare is somewhat handy because it can report chargers that are down and identify some chargers that don't show up in the truck's navigation. ...The trucks navigation is brain-dead and doesn't actually try to optimally plan a route either. Nor does it let you add stops to an existing route or try to re-optimize charger destinations and routing if you hit a detour or decide to diverge from your route. All things that Tesla's system does just fine. Found this out the hard way on our first trip with the truck back home. I took a small detour to make an extra stop outside Omaha. Truck's navigation never said a thing the whole time and kept telling me that the next charger it had initially picked is where I should still go. Nope, couldn't make it after my detour. Had to use plugshare and also re-scanned with the truck for other chargers, found a 50kW charge point that saved us.

My biggest dislike about road-tripping an EV is the number of stops needed, or the reduced range combined with the charge times. We'd all be annoyed if our ICE vehicles only went 180 miles on a typical day before we felt it would be best to fill up. Even though filling a gas tank is a lot quicker. Overall I don't mind the longer charge times, I suppose it's a trade-off I'm willing to make for all the other times I don't have to go to a gas station while at home. But the range is still a real factor here, leading to frequency of stops. Tesla suffers from all of this. EA is far worse due to terrible network reliability and charging output/performance.

 

[sotek2345]

I will just chime in and say that we absolutely need a more streamlined system if we want to get to mass adoption. I know I am an early adopter an will deal with some troubleshooting as needed, but many won't. I can use my Mother as an example. She has a smartphone but only knows how to use the Facebook app. She doesn't have a computer or internet at home. At most charging stops she wouldn't have a clue how to start the session, or even know how to find the chargers. It simply wouldn't work for her beyond local driving.

Heck, even my wife how is very tech savvy has told me she would be very nervous taking a longer road trip without me along if a charging issue came up.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

Not thinking specifically of high population areas, but that's why I had the stipulation of staying along primary highway routes. EA and others have mostly filled the gap on the primary interstate highways, just as Tesla has. EA actually has more charger locations in the USA than Tesla does.

But don't get me wrong here, I think EA sucks balls. My point was that a non-Tesla EV could be driving cross-country now, whereas a few years ago it could not. Sure, there are a lot of EV charging dead zones and certain routes are just not convenient, let alone possible. I spend a lot of time in West Virginia and the entire state is a public EV charger dead-zone. Yet I still see quite a few Teslas there, have seen a few Rivians and a couple Lightnings.



Hey, I spend LOTS of time in Telluride! Practically grew up there. Anyway, I agree with you on the road tripping, road warrior thing. EV road trips are something I'm not all that fond of at the moment. I've done two in my Lightning since getting it. The first was to drive it back from the out of state dealership where I bought it, so went from Iowa to Colorado, or about 700 miles from A to B. Then the next trip was about 950 miles. Just as with the Tesla, the time added on a trip to charge is huge. It really bites into schedules and I'm not a huge fan of road trips in an ICE vehicle anyway where I only make 1/3 as many stops and they take no more than 10 minutes. Most of the time I just want to get there. If it's more than a 7 to 8 hour drive, I usually fly unless I just need to have my vehicle with me.

My charging experience so far with the Lightning has been pretty abysmal... Both of my road trip routes have had chargers regularly spaced along the route just fine. But this is the part where I say EA sucks balls... The number of improperly working charger or those just not working at all, was unacceptable. None of the NFC or card readers were working on the first trip. Couldn't get the app to activate the charger, had to call EVERY TIME to get my member rate, sometimes I was unsuccessful. Most all the chargers were not running at optimal output, often throttling back to under 40kW.

I know lots of people recommend using ABRP... I can't find any use in it. In my experience, the way it micro-manages charge stops as it plans your route is just infuriating. Plugshare is somewhat handy because it can report chargers that are down and identify some chargers that don't show up in the truck's navigation. ...The trucks navigation is brain-dead and doesn't actually try to optimally plan a route either. Nor does it let you add stops to an existing route or try to re-optimize charger destinations and routing if you hit a detour or decide to diverge from your route. All things that Tesla's system does just fine. Found this out the hard way on our first trip with the truck back home. I took a small detour to make an extra stop outside Omaha. Truck's navigation never said a thing the whole time and kept telling me that the next charger it had initially picked is where I should still go. Nope, couldn't make it after my detour. Had to use plugshare and also re-scanned with the truck for other chargers, found a 50kW charge point that saved us.

My biggest dislike about road-tripping an EV is the number of stops needed, or the reduced range combined with the charge times. We'd all be annoyed if our ICE vehicles only went 180 miles on a typical day before we felt it would be best to fill up. Even though filling a gas tank is a lot quicker. Overall I don't mind the longer charge times, I suppose it's a trade-off I'm willing to make for all the other times I don't have to go to a gas station while at home. But the range is still a real factor here, leading to frequency of stops. Tesla suffers from all of this. EA is far worse due to terrible network reliability and charging output/performance.

Thanks for the input.
Ever hiked Palmyra? I did it once about 10 years ago at age 48. Scariest thing I ever did.
My truck barley leaves town. My wife’s car is the road trip car now.

 

[DanielM92563]

Teslas are ugly, that’s reason enough not to recommend them.

 

[neririn]

What are these unique-to-Tesla issues? "Reality" is that they have some of the same issues (total infrastructure, charging speeds, adapters, infrastructure reliability), but generally the issues are substantially less severe.

Specifically of what I was speaking that is unique to Tesla, was that there are too many teslas for the number of available charging stations. They certainly have more charging stations nationwide, but it would be interesting to see the ratio of consumers to providers. How many charging stations are there per 100 Teslas?​

​

For example, my Tesla owning buddy was driving back home from San Diego after ringing in the new year in Southern California. His model S, wanted him to charge at the large Tesla super charger station there in Baker, CA. Probably due to the demand load, all the super chargers were running at 1/3 normal rates. Then there was the sheer number of cars needing to charge there. The line of Tesla's waiting to charge, by his estimate, was 400 vehicles long going northbound, and a similar line coming southbound. He spent 19 hours within 2 miles of Baker California. In a winter storm, with no heat and his car off as much as possible so he had enough power to drive it slowly car length by car length to the charging station. His drive should, and would, have taken less than 5 hours in an ICE vehicle.​

​

This is certainly a charging problem unique to Tesla, and frankly an enviable problem to have as charging problems go.​

Is long-distance travel "just as bad" for Teslas on average? No, that's demonstrably false.

I would propose that the promise of a super charger when planning a road trip, yet finding only already consumed chargers (for multiple hours), chargers charging well below posted rates due to demand, is just as bad if not worse than the promise of a slow or infrequent chargers for non-tesla drivers.​

Wyoming has 1/600 of the US population. It's an extreme outlier. No one in this video or thread has suggested EVs are perfect for everyone or that they have to be anytime soon, so this is a red herring, just like all the nonsense about recycling and emissions and such.

My apologies, I did not intend to imply Wyoming was the only place there is a problem, nor that the thread suggested EV's are for everyone. Quite the opposite actually. Wyoming just fit nicely with the posed question of "how do I recommend EV's to the older generation" narrative from the previous post. This is because I have an older generation mother living in Wyoming.​

​

But I do propose that we wont get to where it makes sense for the majority of non-urban area drivers in the US in our lifetime.​

​

Based on what I have seen, and I by no means desire to imply that I have seen it all, I would say outside of the coastal states and more specifically the coastal state's largest cities, expecting to count on public charging (or private in the case of Tesla) isn't a great plan, now or anytime soon. Implying we should already be there, or even be close, like I believe this video clearly implies, is lunacy.​

​

This is particularly true out here in my neck of the woods in the west. Here, even in the large cities, really COUNTING on any charging to be available for an EV road trip is just poor planning, and borderline irresponsible if you are traveling in the winter with young children. (See my previous Baker California example above)​

​

Sure it is a small percentage of the overall US population as measured in persons per square mile, but it still is a whole lot of persons and a whole lot of square miles where road tripping in an EV still isn't a good, let alone great idea. To the tune of tens of millions of people and multiple millions of square miles in the US. And I think it will be years, maybe decades before places like these make sense for EV's beyond commuter vehicles. Places like Eastern Washington, Eastern Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah. Most of Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas... the list goes on and on. It's a broad brush to be sure, but a lot of folks vacation, live, and retire here. Lack of charging options and all.​

​

As stated, as an owner of multiple EV's currently and even more in the past 8 years, I personally don't think it is a good idea to consider road tripping with EV's at all. And if I lived further than a half a days drive east of the Pacific Ocean, which I certainly do, I wouldn't even try to travel much more than a couple hundred miles a day with an EV. And that, for me, includes traveling in most of the US from just inside the extreme west coast to the Mississippi River and a bit beyond.​

​

Now if I lived on the east coast, which maybe you do, I could potentially feel very differently.​

​

As for my recycling concerns and relocated/deferred emissions statement, we will likely just have to agree to disagree on that one. ​

 

[jazzmanmonty]

Lol his finicky charger reminded me of all the times I'd go pump gas in the winter, set the lever to auto pump, and as soon as I'd sit in my car i hear the click that the pump stopped.

I agree with him about a lot of what he says, especially poorly maintained chargers. I rented a tesla in Cali these chargers are just left tossed on the ground all beat up. People need to learn charger etiquette and owners need to be aware that if something is faulty (like a cut in the cable thats lying in a puddle while carr is charging) there's 240v going through there that'll kill someone quick.

 

[davehu]

If range anxiety is an issue, stick with ICE...F-150 ICE. My Lightning will be used 100% within roundtrip range and 95% of the time within 100 miles RT. My wife's Honda Pilot is our vacation vehicle.

 

[Blainestang]

Specifically of what I was speaking that is unique to Tesla, was that there are too many teslas for the number of available charging stations.​

​

...​

​

This is certainly a charging problem unique to Tesla, and frankly an enviable problem to have as charging problems go.​

​

​

Waiting to charge isn't unique to Tesla. For Tesla, it's usually holiday weekends in specific locations and a result of too many cars for the infrastructure.​

​

For non-Teslas, it's usually some combination of more-than-normal demand and/or even-worse-than-normal infrastructure reliability. Considering that probably 80% of all road-tripping EVs in the US are Teslas, I don't see anywhere near 4:1 complaints about Tesla charging, so I stand by my assertion that Tesla has some of the same issues as non-Tesla charging, but generally substantially less severe. The JD Power and Plugshare study recently released seems to agree, as well. Telsa's network crushed the rest of the networks.​

I would propose that the promise of a super charger when planning a road trip, yet finding only already consumed chargers (for multiple hours), chargers charging well below posted rates due to demand, is just as bad if not worse than the promise of a slow or infrequent chargers for non-tesla drivers.

​

I don't disagree with this statement itself. But the huge difference in frequency of these problems is the reason Tesla's network is so much better overall. I've never waited in a line anywhere, Tesla or non-Tesla, but I've arrived at a non-Tesla charger and had it seem like I might be stuck there for hours even though there were 4 chargers and zero other people around because of network unreliability, which basically everyone agrees (along with studies on the topic) is far more frequent with non-Tesla charging.​

The rest is really a separate topic than Tesla network vs non-Tesla network. We're in agreement that EVs aren't for everyone or anywhere near everyone, yet.

 

[Amps]

owners need to be aware that if something is faulty (like a cut in the cable thats lying in a puddle while carr is charging) there's 240v going through there that'll kill someone quick.

That's not how it works, but if it improves charger etiquette, by all (and any) means....

 

[Gaalpwrd]

honestly, how the hell am i supposed to recommend a non tesla EV vehicle to any of the older generation people?

I tried to charge three times outside personally, EA charger stalls selective dont work, a non exist EA charger location obtained from the ford nav unit (my fault i guess??) and finally a chargepoint where one of the plugs dont work and the other charges at slow speeds.

This. The Ford nav has charge stations listed that don't work, are partially broken, or straight up don't exist anymore. I was looking for a way to send this info in and I couldn't find a way.

I shouldn't need 3 seperate apps to properly travel and hopefully charge my truck. I love the truck but the infrastructure out there needs a significant upgrade to be feasible considering all the EVs coming to market.

 

[TrinOKor]

real problem I'm finding is all the chargers out there with an nfc tap-to-pay logo on there but what it's really for is a custom card or app, not simple credit or debit cards, and they give you no accurate errors about it. I'm looking at you blink and chargepoint.

 

[Peddyr]

Does anyone use the PlugShare app?

Sponsored