Three Phase Plug

[AT193]

As my truck is currently sits waiting to be shipped, I'm getting my plan together for at home/at work charging.

My shop at work has three phase wye power, I can pull actual voltage readings on Monday when I am back in. I have scrubbed through some old posts but haven't found much detail about charging the F150L on three phase. Is there any advantage to having this third leg? Or would using it be way too much voltage for the onboard charger to handle? Current plan is for a wall charger at home, and at work I would use an outlet and a mobile charger.

Currently I do have a Nema 14-50 outlet, however it is hooked up as 3 Phase for a TIG welder. If that is a no-go and I have to wire in another one for the EV only, does it matter which 2/3 legs I use?

Thanks for any advice

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[tblches]

Because it is 3 phase Wye power, it is 120/208. You will need to verify the charger or vehicle is rated for 208V and not 240V. If the charger/vehicle is rated at 240V, you may need a buck boost transformer to take the 208V and boost it to 240V. As long as you are correct that you have a wye service, it does not matter which 2 of the 3 legs you use for the charger. If by chance you do have a delta hi-leg service, then it will matter. Verify the 2 legs you plan to use are 120V line to neutral, and 208V line to line. I have not seen a L1 or L2 charger that is three phase, the only 3 phase chargers I have seen are DCFC and those are at 480V.

 

[FlasherZ]

There are two typical services for 3-phase wye in the US - there's 208Y120 and 480Y277. 208Y120 is fine as @tblches notes, you charge using 2 ungrounded ("hot") conductors, just like with 240V.

You will not need a buck/boost transformer to boost it.

480Y277 service, which is 480V line-line and 277V line-neutral is typically found in more industrial shops. This, unfortunately, cannot be used with the truck without an additional transformer. I have seen some people charge Tesla vehicles from the 277V L-N voltage before, but the chargers in the vehicle were only rated 85-265V and if I recall correctly, the EVSE didn't last more than a month or so before succumbing to the higher voltages. Shops that have 480Y277 service usually also have a secondary transformer to derive 240V for office loads and non-industrial equipment, you'll have to get a circuit from that transformer.

I have not seen Ford's in-truck chargers, but my guess is that they're not designed/rated at 277V either.

 

[Maquis]

Every L2 EVSE I’m familiar with will operate on 208V. Forget the 3 phase part, it will only use 2 legs because it’s a single phase load.
The charging power will be reduced slightly due to lower voltage.

Most medium to large car dealers are powered by 208V, 3 phase, so the EVSEs there are running successfully on it. When the dealer plugs in a Ford Mobile Charger, it’s operating on 208V

 

[tblches]

Because it is 3 phase Wye power, it is 120/208. You will need to verify the charger or vehicle is rated for 208V and not 240V. If the charger/vehicle is rated at 240V, you may need a buck boost transformer to take the 208V and boost it to 240V. As long as you are correct that you have a wye service, it does not matter which 2 of the 3 legs you use for the charger. If by chance you do have a delta hi-leg service, then it will matter. Verify the 2 legs you plan to use are 120V line to neutral, and 208V line to line. I have not seen a L1 or L2 charger that is three phase, the only 3 phase chargers I have seen are DCFC and those are at 480V.

Agree for the most part with @FlasherZ. Only thing would be if the charger is not rated for 208V and needs to have 240V, there may be need for a buck boost. There may be small instrument transformers that need to 240V to step down in the unit itself.

Just to follow up:

The Ford F150 Lightning MY22 manual states the mobile charger is rated 120-240VAC so I would assume you would be ok. There was a note stating "Your vehicle comes with a mobile power cord that has a low power connector to use with a 120V plug NEMA 5-15 and a high power connector to use with a 240V plug NEMA 14-50." The note specifies 240V but the spec states 120V thru 240V. My guess would be that it would work with 208V but would need to be verified with Ford technical team.

Chargepoint CPF50 states in their spec and install manuals that it will work at 208V.

Ford Charge Station Pro state in its spec sheet the input voltage is to be 240V.

All of this to say, it depends and you should probably reach out to the technical team of which charger you are getting to verify its capabilities.

 

[AT193]

Thanks for the quick replies. Im pretty sure it's 120/208 three phase. Again I will confirm with a meter, but I just took a look at our receipt for a new cold saw last year and it says 220v 3ph.

If I am at 208, and the buck up to 220 is optional, what are the real impacts of that on the charge speed? Is the increase going to be meaningful in a 8 hour work day charge?

 

[FlasherZ]

They will work fine in 208V-land. Many, many level 2 chargers in the wild are 208V (for example, the ones at the St. Louis airport) and it would be a show-stopper, non-starter issue if they weren't capable of handling 208V.

I find it odd that the Charge Station Pro's cut sheet says only 240V. I will assume that it's an omission, though, as an EVSE contains a switching power supply that can usually handle any household voltage 120V-240V (Tesla's EVSE does this) and then just pipes the current through using contactors. But check with them.

 

[metroshot]

Since you have 3 phase service, maybe see how much to get 480V 3 phase separate meter and then get yourself a L3 DCFC ?

I would love to have that commercial charging ability and skip out on L2.

 

[Amps]

Since you have 3 phase service, maybe see how much to get 480V 3 phase separate meter and then get yourself a L3 DCFC ?

I would love to have that commercial charging ability and skip out on L2.

The old 480V 50 kW Chargepoints were about $35k before installation. That's for ~2 1/2 times the output of the Charge Station Pro included with the truck.

DCFC is a tough business model.

 

[duncanmaio]

Thanks for the quick replies. Im pretty sure it's 120/208 three phase. Again I will confirm with a meter, but I just took a look at our receipt for a new cold saw last year and it says 220v 3ph.

If I am at 208, and the buck up to 220 is optional, what are the real impacts of that on the charge speed? Is the increase going to be meaningful in a 8 hour work day charge?

I am running a ClipperCreek HCS-80 (64 amp nominal output) on a 208v 3-phase system - using two hot legs, of course. We haven't bothered to meter current draw or output, but it seems a touch lower than nominal, as expected with lower voltage.

I am not an electrician, but I believe on most systems, including mine, the three legs are equal and it doesn't matter which you use. Some systems have a "wild" leg that is higher. Wye vs. Delta, etc. is way out of my pay grade.

That said, I have a 80+ mile daily roundtrip commute, don't charge at home most days, and can top up to 90% after two days of driving in about five hours. I am going to drop down to 80% (and probably shorten charge time). If you are going to hook up the FCSP at 80 amps (or 72, or whatever works), your results should be better than mine at 64 amps.

Slightly off topic, we are very happy with the Clipper Creek charger. Simple, robust, easy install.

 

[Maquis]

Thanks for the quick replies. Im pretty sure it's 120/208 three phase. Again I will confirm with a meter, but I just took a look at our receipt for a new cold saw last year and it says 220v 3ph.

If I am at 208, and the buck up to 220 is optional, what are the real impacts of that on the charge speed? Is the increase going to be meaningful in a 8 hour work day charge?

208/240 = .87

Presuming the current is the same at both voltages (it will be very close), you charge at 87% of the 240V speed.

 

[FlasherZ]

I am not an electrician, but I believe on most systems, including mine, the three legs are equal and it doesn't matter which you use. Some systems have a "wild" leg that is higher. Wye vs. Delta, etc. is way out of my pay grade.

High-leg delta occurs when 3-phase delta systems are used and one leg is center-tapped and grounded for 120V loads:

If this is a 240V delta split-phase system, then A-B is 240V, B-C is 240V, and A-C is 240V. N-A is 120V, N-C is 120V. N-B is 208V. If you have 3-phase delta, then you need to be sure which phase conductor you're using for loads from neutral to line.

From experience, I know that 120V shop-vacs run extremely well, but only for about 5 seconds, on 208V and 240V.

A 208Y120 wye arrangement (common in apartments and low-voltage commercial settings) is much different, where the neutral is in the center instead of center-tapped between A-C. In this system, N-A, N-B, and N-C is 120V, while A-B, B-C, A-C are all 208V.

Power balance is always a concern here because you need to try to balance your loads across all of the phases. Delta makes it more difficult, because you only get 120V loads from the A-C windings, and you need enough 240V loads on A-B and B-C to balance out the loads. This is why wye is more popular today.

 

[SteffanG]

I can guarantee the truck will charge on 208V. Without that, you can rule out any fast charger at a business as they almost always have 3-phase power (I.e. 208V).

As for high-leg, you also have to watch out for auto-transformers as well. I have a 240V 3-phase system at work (no neutral so no 120V, it is 138V to ground) but due to using an auto transformer and 600V primary, one leg is 347V to ground. (If it was 480V primary it would be 277V to ground).

Normally the difference with resistive things is 75% of the power (due to 87% voltage which causes 87% current). With EV they draw the same current whether the voltage is 208V or 240V so it is only a 13% decrease (87% of power available).

 

[FlasherZ]

We already know the truck can charge on 208V. We need to validate Ford's documentation that doesn't seem to say much about 208V for the Charge Station Pro (only says 240V).

 

[SteffanG]

If I had the truck I would be able to tell you as my house has a 120/208v 3-phase feed to it (I have no 240V)

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