What software updates should Ford add to the lightning?

[beatle]

To further what @beatle also noted about Tesla - they upgrade thousands of Model 3's from HW 2.5 to HW3 after cars were delivered. That hardware didn't deliver the specs needed for their planned FSD - they updated the HW. It's what a responsible company does. Especially for an $80K to $90K truck.

But people paid a lot of money for that "FSD" hardware. Even back then I think it was something like $6k. I don't think they gave you the new AP hardware if you didn't pay for FSD.

I think Ford would be more likely to offer an out of pocket upgrade for new hardware, if anything. That would leave the consumer with the option to be "left behind" with their old hardware that would receive fewer or no updates, or to move on with the supported platform - similar to smartphones. Personally I found the MCU2 upgrade to be well worth the $1500 price. MCU1 had become so slow and was almost unusable even after Tesla replaced the eMMC chip under warranty. I hope that Ford's (and others') infotainment system does not suffer the same fate as it ages.

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[sotek2345]

But people paid a lot of money for that "FSD" hardware. Even back then I think it was something like $6k. I don't think they gave you the new AP hardware if you didn't pay for FSD.

I think Ford would be more likely to offer an out of pocket upgrade for new hardware, if anything. That would leave the consumer with the option to be "left behind" with their old hardware that would receive fewer or no updates, or to move on with the supported platform - similar to smartphones. Personally I found the MCU2 upgrade to be well worth the $1500 price. MCU1 had become so slow and was almost unusable even after Tesla replaced the eMMC chip under warranty. I hope that Ford's (and others') infotainment system does not suffer the same fate as it ages.

If they feature lock it, it should stay just as fast as when you get it since the software won't be changing.

 

[beatle]

It depends on how well they "lock" it. I wish that were the case with Tesla, but even minimal feature updates had crippled MCU1. It's not like all the extra features are running at the same time either. People on the TMC forum always complained about the games and easter eggs slowing down their system, but those take up minimal space and aren't stealing CPU cycles if they're not running.

Tesla did overhaul the UI a few times and they likely did not optimize it for the old hardware.

 

[sotek2345]

It depends on how well they "lock" it. I wish that were the case with Tesla, but even minimal feature updates had crippled MCU1. It's not like all the extra features are running at the same time either. People on the TMC forum always complained about the games and easter eggs slowing down their system, but those take up minimal space and aren't stealing CPU cycles if they're not running.

Tesla did overhaul the UI a few times and they likely did not optimize it for the old hardware.

I have a feeling that for the Lighting, locked means no OTA updates at all - so you stay with factory software.

You should always buy a vehicle based on the features it has, not what is promised.

 

[GDN]

I can't argue with the last few posts, I agree, buy on what is there today vs what you might hope for, however, this is another game changer that Tesla is bringing to the table. Honestly I can not recall the number of tangible improvements and enhancements Tesla gave me over the last 4 years of ownership, however they have been numerous and very valuable.

Ford can hang tight and say here is the bucket of bolts we sold you - enjoy them for 20 years. Or they can sit back and watch others gain on the Ford sales leadership in trucks by saying - here buy our truck which is truly just as capable as Ford and over the next 5 to 10 years I will also improve it and enhance it because our hardware is all the same and backward compatible and I won't leave your $80K heap of bucket of bolts to only be as good as it was 5 years ago when you bought it.

Truly I think this is a game changer based on younger generations and buyers. In 10 years if Ford is no longer the leader I believe this will be one of the number 1 reasons why.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

I can't argue with the last few posts, I agree, buy on what is there today vs what you might hope for, however, this is another game changer that Tesla is bringing to the table. Honestly I can not recall the number of tangible improvements and enhancements Tesla gave me over the last 4 years of ownership, however they have been numerous and very valuable.

Ford can hang tight and say here is the bucket of bolts we sold you - enjoy them for 20 years. Or they can sit back and watch others gain on the Ford sales leadership in trucks by saying - here buy our truck which is truly just as capable as Ford and over the next 5 to 10 years I will also improve it and enhance it because our hardware is all the same and backward compatible and I won't leave your $80K heap of bucket of bolts to only be as good as it was 5 years ago when you bought it.

Truly I think this is a game changer based on younger generations and buyers. In 10 years if Ford is no longer the leader I believe this will be one of the number 1 reasons why.

Maybe?

I think car companies will support possible software stacks more as this becomes the norm, but I doubt they will keep doing this forever - even Tesla. Tesla does this as a sales tactic, but also does a lot of engineering to cut costs on other features. That's why they have so few buttons. Its cheaper to do what they do in software than hardware.

If you think about it, they are the only company that does this. Other car companies sell you a car, and you just drive it.

Tesla also has to do this because they do not support CarPlay - which allows you to bring your own computer and own apps and interact with them directly on the screen. I have never cared that our Kia Soul EV has zero interface updates (except one specific one mentioned below) since I bought it because all my updates have been through my phone - including a hardware upgrade. There are a few features I would like to see in the Lighting. Most of the ones I want can all be accessed through the API. And if I already carry a phone, which is a computer in its own right, this is a superiour ecosystem in the long run.

IMO - the only feature missing from the Kia is the ability to have it charge to X% whenever I plug it in, without using a timer function. Turns out that feature exists in the API. But Kia charges for API access (monthly) which is a pain in the ass.

To be sure, the do some fun things like being able to make fart noises - and they are investing a lot on the Self-Driving Paradigm (which I don't think will be obtained for quite a longtime) but a lot of the feature set outside of the API itself isn't really critical if your vehicle already came with normal windshield wipers from the start.

So, apart from a few things that the interface should have out of the box, like cameras become security/dash-cams to USB and displaying KWh delivered while charging, everything else I would want from this truck can be had from the API. Tesla is really good for allowing the API to be open. Others really need to follow that.

Guess we will see which path Ford takes. Either way though, I bet they sell every lightning they make.

 

[GDN]

Maybe?

I think car companies will support possible software stacks more as this becomes the norm, but I doubt they will keep doing this forever - even Tesla. Tesla does this as a sales tactic, but also does a lot of engineering to cut costs on other features. That's why they have so few buttons. Its cheaper to do what they do in software than hardware.

If you think about it, they are the only company that does this. Other car companies sell you a car, and you just drive it.

Tesla also has to do this because they do not support CarPlay - which allows you to bring your own computer and own apps and interact with them directly on the screen. I have never cared that our Kia Soul EV has zero interface updates (except one specific one mentioned below) since I bought it because all my updates have been through my phone - including a hardware upgrade. There are a few features I would like to see in the Lighting. Most of the ones I want can all be accessed through the API. And if I already carry a phone, which is a computer in its own right, this is a superiour ecosystem in the long run.

IMO - the only feature missing from the Kia is the ability to have it charge to X% whenever I plug it in, without using a timer function. Turns out that feature exists in the API. But Kia charges for API access (monthly) which is a pain in the ass.

To be sure, the do some fun things like being able to make fart noises - and they are investing a lot on the Self-Driving Paradigm (which I don't think will be obtained for quite a longtime) but a lot of the feature set outside of the API itself isn't really critical if your vehicle already came with normal windshield wipers from the start.

So, apart from a few things that the interface should have out of the box, like cameras become security/dash-cams to USB and displaying KWh delivered while charging, everything else I would want from this truck can be had from the API. Tesla is really good for allowing the API to be open. Others really need to follow that.

Guess we will see which path Ford takes. Either way though, I bet they sell every lightning they make.

So I can tell from your tone you are OK without having updates. You make light of what Tesla has done. Make no mistake Tesla doesn't even have to work to make these new features backward compatible, because all of their cars have all of the hardware (very cheap for a 3 dollar camera to be added while the vehicle is on the assembly line).

Even those few tangible items you note Tesla added are some great value to a car that is a few years old. Tesla doesn't do it to attract sales, they do it because they can. It makes their customers happy and it brings loyalty.

You are participating in a threat that wouldn't even exist if everyone was OK with no new features, but it is obvious that most recognize they can be added and hope for some enhancements after dropping $80K to $90K on their truck.

Why does the FDRS update thread exist back on the gen14 forum? It is because Ford can't even fix the bugs they have in their software and deliver a promised feature like BlueCruise to the 2021 ICE truck. So owners are spending more money out of their own pockets to fix what Ford promised over a year ago and update their own software.

There will be many little things that chip away at the legacy automakers. I'm just saying don't turn your head to them like they have done in the past. That is when you wake up and wonder how the water around you boiled and you're losing market share. I like Ford, I'm back to the Lightning because it is an exciting product. However don't turn your head to the number of sales that Rivian and Tesla can take once they get their products and assembly polished. No one thought 4 years ago that Tesla would ever build a million cars a year. That is a million cars that some other manufacture is not getting to sell.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

So I can tell from your tone you are OK without having updates. You make light of what Tesla has done. Make no mistake Tesla doesn't even have to work to make these new features backward compatible, because all of their cars have all of the hardware (very cheap for a 3 dollar camera to be added while the vehicle is on the assembly line).

Even those few tangible items you note Tesla added are some great value to a car that is a few years old. Tesla doesn't do it to attract sales, they do it because they can. It makes their customers happy and it brings loyalty.

You are participating in a threat that wouldn't even exist if everyone was OK with no new features, but it is obvious that most recognize they can be added and hope for some enhancements after dropping $80K to $90K on their truck.

Why does the FDRS update thread exist back on the gen14 forum? It is because Ford can't even fix the bugs they have in their software and deliver a promised feature like BlueCruise to the 2021 ICE truck. So owners are spending more money out of their own pockets to fix what Ford promised over a year ago and update their own software.

There will be many little things that chip away at the legacy automakers. I'm just saying don't turn your head to them like they have done in the past. That is when you wake up and wonder how the water around you boiled and you're losing market share. I like Ford, I'm back to the Lightning because it is an exciting product. However don't turn your head to the number of sales that Rivian and Tesla can take once they get their products and assembly polished. No one thought 4 years ago that Tesla would ever build a million cars a year. That is a million cars that some other manufacture is not getting to sell.

I am ok without having updates as long as there is API access and the vehicle is not hampered by the lack of physical buttons. Tesla deliberately migrated some of the physical buttons to software, which is great from a cost perspective. In the case of things like windshield wipers until updates came out, you had to dig deep into a menu to find them, which, IMO is not safe. There are certain functions I want to always be physical in case I need them in a hurry. Tesla has bet the farm on having computers do most of the work. I don't think the state of AI/Machine Learning is even remotely close to the level of a goldfish: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...water-drive-a-mini-vehicle-on-land-180979328/

Tesla has great API access. IMO, this is the true killer app for their platform.

There are some features that we have identified in this thread that Ford does not have, but should have, those I think should be available with updates. Dog mode, cameras-to-USB are some that absolutely need to roll out. Cameras to USB is probably a CANBUS update I would guess - but I don't know for sure.

I don't really like the idea of having updates that are only available through the Fordpass App. That is a closed garden. For my use case, that isn't really helpful, as I control my entire home with many varied bits of hardware where I have API access, and I want to be able to integrate the Lightning directly into that Ecosystem.

For example, I have Home Assistant running all my home-connected devices, and I can then leverage Siri to talk to Home Assistant to do things. If I say "Hey Siri, activate night routine" Siri then talks to Home Assistant, and runs the Night Routine automation. This locks all of our doors, sets the alarm to stay at home, turns off all inside lights, ensures all the garages are closed etc. Each of these subsystems is from a different vendor. Our garages have 2 vendors, our lights have 3 different vendors, API access I could add the Lightning to this, so that it only starts charging after the system tells it to do so. This way I can automate it to my needs directly without needing to depend on Ford custom building software.

I also want to be able to say: "Hey Siri, activate Junk in the Frunk" Which would call Home Assistant, which would call the API, which would open the Frunk.

With API access most of the things that I want to do with the Lighting are covered. There are only a few updates I think that the GUI lacks.

 

[sotek2345]

Small ask (and I know it won't happen), but it would be nice if we could edit the truck image in the UI (upper left on the 15.5" screen and in the instrument cluster) to match the color of our trucks.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Small ask (and I know it won't happen), but it would be nice if we could edit the truck image in the UI (upper left on the 15.5" screen and in the instrument cluster) to match the color of our trucks.

I am surprised that isn't a hidden menu setting - or automatic.

 

[sotek2345]

I am surprised that isn't a hidden menu setting - or automatic.

Nope - at least not on the Mach-e. You get white for light mode and black for dark mode

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Nope - at least not on the Mach-e. You get white for light mode and black for dark mode

Well that sucks.

 

[VTbuckeye]

Nope - at least not on the Mach-e. You get white for light mode and black for dark mode

Sounds like you need to purchase a white or black truck. Then it will match. Problem solved.

 

[GDN]

Small ask (and I know it won't happen), but it would be nice if we could edit the truck image in the UI (upper left on the 15.5" screen and in the instrument cluster) to match the color of our trucks.

Come on - this will be a little Tongue in Cheek, but also reflects my Tesla stance, but once again, that is something Tesla added with a SW upgrade. Oh so small, but done after the fact.

If Ford doesn't do that until 2024 on the new Android OS based APIM, will they go back and do it to our 2022 based trucks that look just like the others? Even something that simple? It is HUGE for customer satisfaction and easy, but likely they won't.

And let's be real - Tesla didn't let you pick the color until the last month because so many people get their cars wrapped, owners asked to be able to pick a custom color. Until last month you didn't have to pick your color, Tesla selected the color for you, because they already know what color your car is !!

 

[beatle]

If Ford doesn't do that until 2024 on the new Android OS based APIM, will they go back and do it to our 2022 based trucks that look just like the others? Even something that simple? It is HUGE for customer satisfaction and easy, but likely they won't.

I think large companies often miss how much value there is in such small things. This isn't specific to automakers either. For example, having free coffee and monthly donuts at your office might cost the company $100/mo, but it's a glint of humanity. That small token may reduce turnover more than a buck or two in someone's monthly take home. Conversely, I've been with companies that have eliminated free coffee "to save money" and I think "sheesh, that was 0.01% of the contract - you think that was really worth it?"

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