What wall outlet for FCSP ?

[Artificial Intelligence]

I agree with others. If I were in your shoes, I'd still ask for a 100 amp circuit to put your charger on. Future proof yourself now, even if you don't plan on it. I'd also plan on hard wiring what ever it is you end up choosing to use. Safer, more reliable. Maybe plan a secondary nema 14-50 outlet for back up and/or additional future proofing.

When we built our home back in 2016, I was considering going EV in the future and asked to have an additional outlet installed. Unfortunately I did not do my homework and added 120v outlets to the garage. I wish I knew then what I know now.

i like future proofing but it will still cost me some $$$ that the builder will charge... probably not as much if I had to do it all once house is complete

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[Pioneer74]

The FCSP is MASSIVE, about twice the size compared to many other.

Double is about right.

 

[djwildstar]

The folks over on Reddit's r/evcharging strongly recommend going with a hard-wired charger rather than a plug. Even if you don't have the electricians install a charger for you during construction, they can run the circuit to a junction box where the charger will go, and then it is a simple matter for an electrician to hook up a charger later.

The Standard Range F-150 Lighting has a single 11.3kW on-board charger, which works out to 240V at just under 48A. An EVSE to supply this would need to be hooked up to a 60A circuit, because code requires that the circuit be capable of 125% of the rated EVSE draw (48 x 1.25 = 60). Again over on Reddit's r/evcharging, there are a number of "proven" chargers in that capacity range, including Chargepoint, Wallbox Pulsar+, Tesla's J1772 charger, and Clipper Creek -- all of which cost less than the Ford Charge Station Pro.

The Extended Range F-150 Lightning has dual 9.6kW on-board chargers, for a total acceptance rate of 19.2kW. This corresponds to 240V at 80A, and would therefore require a 100A circuit. Other than the Ford CSP, there are very few home chargers that deliver this much power (and the only one I'm aware of is more expensive than the CSP), which is probably why Ford includes it with the truck.

Currently, the on-board chargers for most EVs max out at 9.6kW or less. Some can accept more power. The ones that can take more than 11.5kW (240V 48A) are:

• 17.2kW (72A) -- Tesla Roadster, Model S 100 Single, Model X 100, and Model X Upgrade
• 19.2kW (80A) -- Cadillac Lyriq, Ford F-150 Lightning ER, Lucid Air, Porsche Tacan Upgrade, Tesla Model S Dual

I would expect more vehicles that can accept higher charge rates in the future, particularly as we get more full-size electric pickups with truly massive battery packs.

SO, If you're planning new construction, I'd suggest that you do an EV-Install for any vehicles that you currently own, and provide an EV-Ready hookup for any additional vehicles that could be accommodated. For example, if you own an F-150 Lightning SR and and ICE vehicle, but the new house has a 2 car garage, install a 60A circuit and 11.5kW charger for the Lightning, and make sure that the garage is EV-Ready for a second charger, ideally with another 60A or higher circuit.

Here's the definition of the terms:

• EV-Capable means that there is enough capacity at the panel and a continuous raceway from the panel to the future EVSE install location. This is the cheapest -- it doesn't pull any wire, install any plugs, or require an actual EVSE be installed -- but makes a future EVSE install cheaper.
• EV-Ready means that the breaker is installed and wire is pulled through the raceway, terminating in either a plug (14-50 for a 50A circuit) or junction box (for higher-capacity crircuits). This is next cheapest install, but makes future EVSE install trivial.
• EV-Installed means a full install of the EVSE. The advantage here is that the work is done, ideally during construction, and you don't have to think about it after that.

 

[Zprime29]

i like future proofing but it will still cost me some $$$ that the builder will charge... probably not as much if I had to do it all once house is complete

For reference, Qmerit installed my FCSP on a new 100amp breaker for me. Cost was $900, install was less than 10ft and on the same wall as the breaker. They ran the conduit on the outside of the wall to the install location and then through the wall. Additional distance from the main breaker will increase that cost but not by a whole lot. Ball park it and if the builder can do it for similar or better than I think it's money well spent. Good luck with the build, our experience was simultaneously exciting and very stressful. Overall happy but we made a few choices that in hindsight we'd change (primarily location of the house within our plot).

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

Future proofing has me thinking but i need a bit of education...

if i've a 100 amp circuit lets say going to NEMA 14-50... would i be able to use a 48AMP chargers on it? like juicebox

 

[Pioneer74]

Future proofing has me thinking but i need a bit of education...

if i've a 100 amp circuit lets say going to NEMA 14-50... would i be able to use a 48AMP chargers on it? like juicebox

The highest amperage you can run through a 14-50 is 50 amps, and that has to be derated to 40 amps for a continuous load.

In order to use a 48 amp charger, you need a 60 amp circuit because you have to derate a continuous load, and there are no receptacles for that. Those are hardwired.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

The highest amperage you can run through a 14-50 is 50 amps, and that has to be derated to 40 amps for a continuous load.

In order to use a 48 amp charger, you need a 60 amp circuit because you have to derate a continuous load, and there are no receptacles for that. Those are hardwired.

Can I tell my builder to run a 100 amp circuit and put NEMA 14-50 on it? Is there a problem with this setup. my SR can't take more than 48AMP anyways.

in the future if I ever needed to Hardwire.... a 48AMP charger cannot be hardwired to a 100AMP circuit... am i getting this right? for that I will need a 60 AMP circuit?

thank you all for helping me navigate thru this.

AI

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

Good luck with the build, our experience was simultaneously exciting and very stressful. Overall happy but we made a few choices that in hindsight we'd change (primarily location of the house within our plot).

we already want to change a few things but its too late to go back... yes stressful it is )

 

[Zprime29]

The highest amperage you can run through a 14-50 is 50 amps, and that has to be derated to 40 amps for a continuous load.

In order to use a 48 amp charger, you need a 60 amp circuit because you have to derate a continuous load, and there are no receptacles for that. Those are hardwired.

Pardon the ignorance, does that mean you can't put a 14-50 on a 100 amp circuit?
I see @Artificial Intelligence just beat me to the same question

 

[Pioneer74]

Can I tell my builder to run a 100 amp circuit and put NEMA 14-50 on it? Is there a problem with this setup. my SR can't take more than 48AMP anyways.

No. But you can run a 100 amp feed to a subpanel or fusible disconnect and then have a 14-50 fed from that.

 

[Pioneer74]

Pardon the ignorance, does that mean you can't put a 14-50 on a 100 amp circuit?
I see @Artificial Intelligence just beat me to the same question

No. The highest circuit you can run to a 14-50 is 50 amps. I doubt the 3 Guage wire would fit in the receptacle anyway.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

No. But you can run a 100 amp feed to a subpanel or fusible disconnect and then have a 14-50 fed from that.

thank you... hopefully I won't sound like an idiot when I talk to the builder now

 

[Gewalt]

No. But you can run a 100 amp feed to a subpanel or fusible disconnect and then have a 14-50 fed from that.

This is a nice balance between future proofing (often a waste of money) and being practical for now. My $0.02, as I love my sub panel and its versatility that allows me to operate a 2nd EVSE

 

[chl]

We are going thru a new home construction. I need to know what wall outlet is needed for Ford Charge Station Pro.

Currently I'm using mobile charging cord but I plan to get FCSP once we move. thx.

AI

I had the option of hard-wiring my EVSE for my 2012 Leaf (L2 ) which was an GE Watt Station or adding a plug.

I chose to use a plug/outlet in case I needed to take it with me somewhere (new house for example) without a lot of trouble.

I put my Watt Station on a 40A 240V circuit, used a NEMA 6-50 outlet/recepticle on the wall of my garage which was what the manual for the Watt Station specified - it a three blade socket HOT-HOT-Ground. I used 125 feet of #8NM copper wire - Lowes had it on sale at the time. The Watt Station was rated at 30A (32A actually) and they specified a 40A 2 pole breaker.

It has internal Ground Fault and Surge protection, which the Ford and other brands should have as well so the electrician doesn't need to add additional protection.

The NEMA 6-50 is also rated for 50A if your EVSE requires more amperage.

I attached a couple images FYI. One is the NEMA spec. and the other is from the GE Watt Station literature.

Any competent electrician SHOULD be able to wire things up properly. I am an EE and have seen some pretty incompetent electricians over the years - one guy wired up one of our sheds so the 120V outlets had 240V - big surprise when I plugged in a 120V drill - OMG! He put a HOT lead where the NEUTRAL line should have been in the breaker box! Live and learn and double check everything.

 

[chl]

I have 60 amp sub-panel in the garage installed some years ago and run a Grizzl-E Duo on a 50 amp circuit for my ER Lightning and my wife's ER Mach-E. It draws 40 amps when in full charge and for the most part is adequate unless we both come home empty on the same day. I wish I could have installed two individual chargers which would have required a 100A sub panel to split into two circuits but two EVs didn't enter my mind when I installed it 15 years ago. I concur however that you should run at least a 100 Amp line to the garage for EV charging if you have to run a line anyway. It will be a bit more expensive initially but opens the door for charging options as things change. If I were building new, I would run a 200 Amp service in the garage - 100 amp for FCSP and 50 amp for wife's Mach-e with some room to spare for other circuits. One never knows what the future will bring. As battery tech advances, the next-gen FCSP Lightning might be charging at 160Amps ;-)

Good points. With the goal being all vehicles becoming EVs having the capability for charging more than one at a time is a good idea. Of course if one is an Aptera, the sun will charge it up to 40 miles per day.

My old house ran out of breaker capacity and I upgraded from a 100A panel to a 200A.
I have 100 A sub-panels in each of our wired sheds (pottery studio, tool shed and adult-teenager hang-out shed) and a 50A sub-panel for the Hot Tub.

I have a one-car (barely) garage that the lightning would not fit in, so having the plug instead of hard-wiring my EVSE means I could put it on the outside of my garage for the Lightning. Upgrading from the 40A circuitry I have now would mean running heavier wire and changing the breaker.

Wire has gotten pricey so putting a 100A sub-panel in my garage would require at least 1-guage wire, if going 100ft then 0-guage and it is pretty expensive these days. A second EVSE on a separate circuit (40A or 50A) would be less expensive.

An explanation of wire size requirements and how to manually determine it is here:

https://learnmetrics.com/100-amp-wire-size/

If I install a second EVSE requiring a 50A circuit, much less expensive because of the cost of wire these days. I could use #6 wire for 100 foot distance between the breaker box and the EVSE.

Here is an on-line wire size calculator: http://www.paigewire.com/pumpWireCalc.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

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