Would coasting improve range?

[Solar_EE]

Depends on the implementation. I was thinking toggle on/off coast... not hold it down.

Ioniq 5 offers four settings for regen so it's quite flexible- there is no fatigue as you just toggle the paddles. The big difference for Ioniq 5 is that 1-pedal is less efficient because it keeps the front motor engaged- Ioniq 5 in Eco mode will generally have the front motor disengaged for higher efficiency. I like the 1-pedal drive in my Lightning but it is not as strong in the regen as the Ioniq 5- closer to level 3 regen in Ioniq 5.

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[John Becker]

Well, I was going to start a new thread, and then found this one from over a year ago.
I've had my 2023 Lariat SR for about two weeks now and I've been experimenting with the various drive modes:

• Normal 2 PD
• Normal 1 PD
• Sport 2 PD
• Sport 1 PD

For now at least, I've gravitated toward the Normal 1 PD mode as a personal preference.
That said, I'm anal and trying to figure out how to maximize my MPK (other than the obvious such as slow speeds and no heat et al, and the less obvious such as feathering the accelerator).

Question: If going down a hill into a valley and then up the other side, wouldn't shifting to Neutral maximize MPK rather than regen down the hill and then powering up the next hill?

Furthermore (and if I'm remembering correctly), Ford claims that 1 PD and 2 PD net the same MPK. That strikes me as counterintuitive. What am I missing here?

Last question: Based on research and/or experience, what are the best and most practical ways to maximize MPK in suburban and hilly rural areas?

 

[hturnerfamily]

Physically, there can be no difference in 'efficiency' for any EV in ANY drive mode, all things otherwise being equal - terrain, temps, weather, conditions, speed, traffic, etc.

The only difference in ANY drive mode, or even 'neutral', is your personal preference. The laws of physics do not allow one mode to be 'better' than another mode, since the outcomes ultimately, especially over the long range, are EXACTLY the same.

If you like to coast, in NEUTRAL, yes, the truck WILL coast quite easily, and speedily... it has little to restrict it, other than gravity(terrain)...
If you like one-pedal driving, then you'll need to stay on the pedal, otherwise the truck is GOING to slow, physically brake, and take away momentum, but, at the same time, it is regenerating energy, regardless.
If you like SPORT mode, which I do, you have much more regeneration anytime you move your foot off the pedal, but you are not engaging any braking, at least not from the Mode, itself... I hardly EVER apply the physical brakes. They are there if I need them, tho.
In REGULAR(Normal) drive mode, you are simply removing much of the 'sudden' regeneration slowing, and applying a more 'calm' regeneration that also allows the truck to COAST much more readily, but also creating the need to possibly have to manually apply the physical brakes MUCH more often, but it IS a much more efficient mode down hills..

There is no 'best' mode, at least not over the long miles of comparable driving. If you use a very short 'downhill' case, then yes, NEUTRAL will use almost NO energy, of course, but it also will NOT be regenerating any energy. That same case with REGULAR(Normal) mode will slow a little quicker, but also have some regeneration back to the battery. SPORT mode would slow MUCH more, but also regenerate MUCH more, and, of course, one-pedal would start applying the physical brakes... in ANY of these cases, when you need to go UP the other side of the 'hill', you start to see that you have to now overcome the MOMENTUM that was lost, of any, in all of these different 'modes'.. the faster you are at the bottom of the hill, the least amount of overall energy you will need to get to the 'top' of the upcoming hill, etc....one-pedal is going to require the most, followed by SPORT, followed by REGULAR(Normal), etc.

"What goes down, must come back up"... EINSTEIN. (or was that Aristotle?) : )

 

[Pioneer74]

Question: If going down a hill into a valley and then up the other side, wouldn't shifting to Neutral maximize MPK rather than regen down the hill and then powering up the next hill?

Coasting saves energy, yes. But if you're in drive going downhill, if you dont have your foot on the accelerator pedal, you aren't expelling any energy either. And every time you hit the brakes to slow down, you aren't using the regenerative brakes, you are using the physical brakes, and you are wasting energy that could be captured.

Furthermore (and if I'm remembering correctly), Ford claims that 1 PD and 2 PD net the same MPK. That strikes me as counterintuitive. What am I missing here?

Blended brakes. Unless you mash the brake pedal hard, you are using regenerative breaking, and the truck will regen like 1PD.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Regeneration doesn't capture all of the potential energy from the momentum.

Not sure how much the regeneration process net's to the battery with conversion losses, but if you move to neutral, be ready engage drive if your exceeding the posted or safe operational speed so that regeneration can resume capturing that energy.

I like to moderate the accelerator preserve as much momentum for the uphill segment of the trip, it's taken time to train my right foot pressure & acuity with 1PD, adding in selective shifting would require more coordination training. ie (sports cars & motorcycles with a clutch & manual transmissions)

My motorcyclist brain tells me it's unsafe and in some locations ILLEGAL to roll at speed in neutral, when your in a travel lane, it is required to always have the gear engaged, so that you're ready to power out of a dangerous situation, [8000 pound truck comes careening at you out of control]

 

[John Becker]

I completely agree with everything @TaxmanHog said above and don't disagree with the other commenters.
So, it seems to me that using the physical brakes (2 PD) wastes the most energy. If that's true, how could 2 PD net the same MPK as 1 PD? That makes no sense to me.
Or is it a matter of "gentle use" of the physical brakes provides the same regen as 1 PD as @Pioneer74 alluded to? That would make sense. Am I understanding this now?

A combination of regen and acceleration (1 PD), w/o ever touching the physical brakes, would also waste some energy due to inefficiencies such as the creation of heat. (The truck is not a perpetual energy machine.)
Therefore, utilizing Neutral as much as possible, to minimize acceleration, would maximize MPK?
Hey, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree. I appreciate you all working with me on this.

 

[Pioneer74]

I completely agree with everything @TaxmanHog said above and don't disagree with the other commenters.
So, it seems to me that using the physical brakes (2 PD) wastes the most energy. If that's true, how could 2 PD net the same MPK as 1 PD? That makes no sense to me.
Or is it a matter of "gentle use" of the physical brakes provides the same regen as 1 PD as @Pioneer74 alluded to? That would make sense. Am I understanding this now?

A combination of regen and acceleration (1 PD), w/o ever touching the physical brakes, would also waste some energy due to inefficiencies such as the creation of heat. (The truck is not a perpetual energy machine.)
Therefore, utilizing Neutral as much as possible, to minimize acceleration, would maximize MPK?
Hey, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree. I appreciate you all working with me on this.

Forget the term "physical brakes" when looking at the brake pedal.

When you press that pedal, unless you mash it hard, you are engaging regenative breaking, just like letting off the throttle in 1PD. That is why you can get the same efficiency in 2PD as 1PD.

I think you're worrying about breadcrumbs in the grand scheme of things. Just drive it in any mode you want and relax. You'll get a feel for it.

 

[John Becker]

You've convinced me @Pioneer74 and we are now in full agreement.

During my travels today, I experimented with the 2 PD and could see the regen on the GOM while gently braking. (The "coach" scored me all 100 percents). I didn't understand that 2 PD provides regen while gently braking.

Sport 2 PD provides a nice balance of regen and coasting. (It's sort of like aggressive engine braking.) I'm going to try that for a few more days.

Furthermore, sticking with 2 PD makes it easier to transition back and forth to my ICE vehicle.

And you're right about your "breadcrumbs" comment. Hey, I'm anal and I tend to over-think things.

Thanks again!

 

[TaxmanHog]

Furthermore, sticking with 2 PD makes it easier to transition back and forth to my ICE vehicle.

I think this is a great reason for your choice!

I rarely drive my wife's car MB E300, she intentionally reminds me to use the brakes, LOL!!! I'm actually uncomfortable with traditional braking now that I am in tune with the Lightnings 1PD.

 

[John Becker]

Yeah, after getting used to 1 PD, I got in my ICE vehicle and was surprised when it moved forward upon shifting it into gear. And then I had to remember to hit the brakes to make it stop.

 

[MickeyAO]

Yeah, after getting used to 1 PD, I got in my ICE vehicle and was surprised when it moved forward upon shifting it into gear. And then I had to remember to hit the breaks to make it stop.

Did this all the time when I was testing EVs and then stepped into my ICE to go home.

 

[TomB985]

I've read through a bunch of threads like this on here and other forums for my previous EVs. This is a better discussion than I've seen on some of them, and I agree with most of you.

In the end, I think we're splitting hairs. Regen isn't perfectly efficient, but it's pretty close if we can assume the same efficiency as forward propulsion. When we think about efficiency, speed matters above almost everything else. I'd be willing to bet that coasting above your intended speed is less efficient than using regen to maintain that speed, then putting that energy back in on the other side. I think that would be difficult to test, though.

I prefer 1PD because it never unintentionally engages the friction brakes in the way that I often do with the brake pedal.

 

[John Becker]

The last few days, my driving mode has been Normal 2 PD. I've found that I like it.
Let's rank regen aggressiveness from least to most (in my opinion):

1. Normal 2 PD
2. Sport 2 PD
3. Normal 1 PD
4. Sport 1 PD

Although Sport 1 PD provides the most aggressive regen, does it provide the most regen?
I think not. It appears to me that 2 PD coasting and the brake pedal, provides the same amount of regen, albeit differently, as 1 PD. Am I wrong about that?

Is it true that (all else being equal) efficiency and maximizing MPK is the same regardless of driving mode or 1 or 2 PD?

 

[John Becker]

Furthermore, while in 2 PD, the brake pedal serves as a "regen pedal" in addition to emergency friction braking?
Is that correct?

 

[USA EV]

Furthermore, while in 2 PD, the brake pedal serves as a "regen pedal" in addition to emergency friction braking?
Is that correct?

Yep.

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