Do I need to run new 400 amp service in my house for the Lightning + everything else?

[xtraman122]

Just looking at all the 220 breakers and the piggyback 110's, I think you're overloaded already.

Yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen so many 220v breakers plus every 110v piggy backed in a panel like that, that’s already pretty damn dense and oversubscribed.
Like others have said, if nothing else if being used, sure, you could run it, you can stack up 5 million amps worth of breakers on there if they’re not actually drawing anything, but not many electricians are going to want to do that job for you.

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[Pilot2022]

They looked at the amps draw that each item would pull and said that there was no headroom no amp meter.

They looked at the panel and saw what was connected and they said no headroom. No amp meter

Buy couple of good quality ac current meters, open up that panel and put one on each incoming line conductor. Then, fire up every device in the house (ac, dryer, washer, oven etc) that you think you will run at the same time in most cases and see what readout you get.

Less than $100 and you will solid data to answer your question before you do panel upgrade.

Now, if the panel has no room for breakers, may be time to throw some tandem breakers to free up couple of slots for EV charger.

 

[Pioneer74]

Buy couple of good quality ac current meters, open up that panel and put one on each incoming line conductor. Then, fire up every device in the house (ac, dryer, washer, oven etc) that you think you will run at the same time in most cases and see what readout you get.

Less than $100 and you will solid data to answer your question before you do panel upgrade.

Now, if the panel has no room for breakers, may be time to throw some tandem breakers to free up couple of slots for EV charger.

Look at the picture he has posted. His panel is full of piggyback breakers.

He should have had a sub panel installed about 10 piggyback breakers ago.

 

[Pilot2022]

Look at the picture he has posted. His panel is full of piggyback breakers.

He should have had a sub panel installed about 10 piggyback breakers ago.

Oh dang! I didn’t zoom in enough. Agree, with sub panel suggestion.
Still would measure actual current draw with ammeter before considering a panel upgrade.

 

[Fastnf]

Emporia makes a nice energy monitoring system that can be installed with amp clamps on each circuit and send the data to an app. I have been using one for about two years to monitor my tenants energy use. They are inexpensive and easy to install and provide real time energy usage as well as cumulative energy usage. All of the data is stored for future review.

This would be a good way to get a handle on whether his system can handle additional load.

I agree he needs additional sub panels or a new main panel if he is going to expand it.

Also might be worth while to get an opinion from a Electrical PE ( state licensed professional electrical engineer) as opposed to a contractor. They may be able to provide an alternate solution that meets code and does not require a service up grade


Emporial link below.

https://smile.amazon.com/Emporia-Mo...hild=1&keywords=emporia&qid=1632184710&sr=8-5

 

[ShirBlackspots]

They looked at the amps draw that each item would pull and said that there was no headroom no amp meter.

They looked at the panel and saw what was connected and they said no headroom. No amp meter

440A cumulative on the left, 350A on the right (not counting the inverter breaker).
Do you have 200A service? Then you are significantly overloaded there. The recomendation is 80% of main breaker on each side, so you really should only have 180A max on each side for 200A service.

 

[rjhedrich]

440A cumulative on the left, 350A on the right (not counting the inverter breaker).
Do you have 200A service? Then you are significantly overloaded there. The recomendation is 80% of main breaker on each side, so you really should only have 180A max on each side for 200A service.

Have 200 amp service with a full solar array of 41 panels with each panel at 365 output

 

[GarageMahal]

Have 200 amp service with a full solar array of 41 panels with each panel at 365 output

So i assume some of the 220 breakers are inputs from inverters... do you have any monitoring with the solar? Usually you can see your actual usage along with actual production. On mine I get very detailed data and can even see my peak usage.

 

[rjhedrich]

So i assume some of the 220 breakers are inputs from inverters... do you have any monitoring with the solar? Usually you can see your actual usage along with actual production. On mine I get very detailed data and can even see my peak usage.

So i assume some of the 220 breakers are inputs from inverters... do you have any monitoring with the solar? Usually you can see your actual usage along with actual production. On mine I get very detailed data and can even see my peak usage.

In august with the California fire I imported 1.3 mwh , produced 2.6 mvh cosumed 3 mwh exported 890.6 kWh net imported 396 kWh . On September 18th 31 kWh imported 71.5 kWh produced consumed 70.3 kWh exported 32.3 kWh net exported 1.2 kwh. peak consumed at 3pm of 5.1 kWh

 

[Hullguy]

They looked at the amps draw that each item would pull and said that there was no headroom no amp meter.

They looked at the panel and saw what was connected and they said no headroom. No amp meter

I agree with the electricians! Sorry

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

On September 18th 31 kWh imported 71.5 kWh produced consumed 70.3 kWh exported 32.3 kWh net exported 1.2 kwh. peak consumed at 3pm of 5.1 kWh

Perfect. You have all the data you need. On Sept 18th your peak was 40 amps.

Re-label that panel. That is the most dangerous thing I see with your panel.

Upgrade your 40 amp rv breaker to a 100 amp breaker as you planned to do. You will be perfectly OK. Prove it to yourself by turning on your A/C's, stove top burners, oven pool equipment and run the dryer and report back what your peak is...

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

If you give me the part number of that panel, I can check it for you. It doesn't look like an all in one that is printed on the sticker. A 30 space panel is typically rated for 40 circuits. (They don't allow you to twin more than 10 spaces. The bus tabs are designed to prevent more twinned. I have inspected many many panels where the electrician simply breaks out a tiny piece of breaker plastic to bypass the limit).

** 14 years as owner of Winters Electric up the road from you in Tahoe. Sold it 4 years ago and retired. I've seen it all. Thousands of cabins added on and so many hack jobs up there to squeeze in heat tape circuits.

I know everyone up there. What three companies did you use? I did at least 50 panel changes with NV Energy per year. I don't know why you say NV Energy is "strict". They follow the NEC code. I installed a few Tesla 100 amp charges for Ray Sydney, one of the founders of Google. If you really want a 400 amp service, get ready to pay big bucks to NV Energy for upgrade of their lines and get ready to pay a big demand charge.

 

[rjhedrich]

If you give me the part number of that panel, I can check it for you. It doesn't look like an all in one that is printed on the sticker. A 30 space panel is typically rated for 40 circuits. (They don't allow you to twin more than 10 spaces. The bus tabs are designed to prevent more twinned. I have inspected many many panels where the electrician simply breaks out a tiny piece of breaker plastic to bypass the limit).

** 14 years as owner of Winters Electric up the road from you in Tahoe. Sold it 4 years ago and retired. I've seen it all. Thousands of cabins added on and so many hack jobs up there to squeeze in heat tape circuits.

I know everyone up there. What three companies did you use? I did at least 50 panel changes with NV Energy per year. I don't know why you say NV Energy is "strict". They follow the NEC code. I installed a few Tesla 100 amp charges for Ray Sydney, one of the founders of Google. If you really want a 400 amp service, get ready to pay big bucks to NV Energy for upgrade of their lines and get ready to pay a big demand charge.

This is what I have on the panel see attached pictures

 

[rjhedrich]

Perfect. You have all the data you need. On Sept 18th your peak was 40 amps.

Re-label that panel. That is the most dangerous thing I see with your panel.

Upgrade your 40 amp rv breaker to a 100 amp breaker as you planned to do. You will be perfectly OK. Prove it to yourself by turning on your A/C's, stove top burners, oven pool equipment and run the dryer and report back what your peak is...

I turn everything on including pool pump, 2 ac units, electric stove, electric double oven, washer, dryer and everything else . The 15 minute segment went to 14.7 kw from 3 kw.

 

[GarageMahal]

I turn everything on including pool pump, 2 ac units, electric stove, electric double oven, washer, dryer and everything else . The 15 minute segment went to 14.7 kw from 3 kw.

I have not done the full math but that appears to be close to your max solar production which runs through a 70A breaker. So I think 200A service is plenty based on max load of 70A but have no clue if it will work with code and all of the circuits you have in that box.

Edit: one concern however is the spike load to startup the AC units, you might trip the main if they both kicked on at the same time while running a max charge to the truck; just guessing as I don't know how much draw the AC units take at startup.

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