How to Figure Cost to Charge VS. Gas Mileage

[Smokewagun]

I’m having trouble relating electric to ICE MPG. It looks like from the miles I log a year, the Lightning could really be a savings for me in fuel costs, but I’m not certain what my electric will cost to charge the Lightning.
I’ll only consider the extended range, and talking to two friends who own Tesla cars, they say I’ll likely pay about $100 a month to charge. That’s a BIG difference over the $500+ I spend in fuel now, and would leave me with enough money to pay for over 2/3 of my truck payment.
But, how can I be certain, or guesstimate relatively close, what to expect? Does anybody have pointers, or links to some calculators that Geils accurate results?
Thanks!

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[Brian Head Yankee]

There are good calculators out there. If you can charge at work for free, even better.

EV MPGe savings calculator

 

[Fastnf]

I’m having trouble relating electric to ICE MPG. It looks like from the miles I log a year, the Lightning could really be a savings for me in fuel costs, but I’m not certain what my electric will cost to charge the Lightning.
I’ll only consider the extended range, and talking to two friends who own Tesla cars, they say I’ll likely pay about $100 a month to charge. That’s a BIG difference over the $500+ I spend in fuel now, and would leave me with enough money to pay for over 2/3 of my truck payment.
But, how can I be certain, or guesstimate relatively close, what to expect? Does anybody have pointers, or links to some calculators that Geils accurate results?
Thanks!

The equation is ((cost/ kwh )/(2miles/kWh))* miles driven/month= cost of electricity/ month.
If we estimate the Lightning gets 2 miles/kwh . And electricity is $0.10/ kwh we get. kWh/2 miles*10/kwhr=$0.05/ mile . Muiltiply by miles per month and you get the cost per month

Use this equation with your cost for electricity and your miles driven per month and that’s your cost/ month. Lower the 2miles/ kWh if you drive at 80 mph. Raise it if your just driving around town at 30 mph

 

[adoublee]

I’m having trouble relating electric to ICE MPG. It looks like from the miles I log a year, the Lightning could really be a savings for me in fuel costs, but I’m not certain what my electric will cost to charge the Lightning.
I’ll only consider the extended range, and talking to two friends who own Tesla cars, they say I’ll likely pay about $100 a month to charge. That’s a BIG difference over the $500+ I spend in fuel now, and would leave me with enough money to pay for over 2/3 of my truck payment.
But, how can I be certain, or guesstimate relatively close, what to expect? Does anybody have pointers, or links to some calculators that Geils accurate results?
Thanks!

1. Look at your electric utility tariff to see what the next kWhs you purchase will cost you, or if there are any special tariffs that could allow you to charge at lower per-kWh cost. If lazy, maybe start with $0.12/kWh and adjust up or down depending on your perception of local electricity costs.
2. Figure how many kWh you will use a month. I think people are predicting consumption will average 2.0-2.2 kWh per mile driven. So multiply miles driven times 2.1 to get kWh consumption.
3. Adjust #2 up to account for level 2 charging inefficiencies. Assume 90% efficient so #2 divided 0.9 for new kWh total you will be buying.
4. Multiple #1 and #4 for your new fuel cost.

Fuel at 1/5 gasoline costs would not be unexpected.

 

[EaglesPDX]

If you are home charging, look at your current electric bill. Take total kWh used and divide the bill by the kWh for $/kWh. Should be around $0.15 per kWh.

Assuming 120kWh battery, 300 mile range, 2.5 miles per kWh and figure out your kWh used a month times the per kWh cost.

 

[sotek2345]

The Lightning is estimated to get about 2 miles per kWhr. Given that you can do a quick calculation to see how much it would cost assuming charging at home.

((Average miles per month)/2) x (electricity cost per kWhr)

You can get your electric rate from your electric bill. The national average is somewhere around $0.13 per kWhr. At that rate, 1000 miles will cost around $65 worth of electricity.

 

[Pilot2022]

Exactly the Information I was looking for. What about depreciation of EVs vs ICE? I assume if we are the verge of EV adoption, the depreciation on ICE vehicles will get worse….

 

[sotek2345]

Exactly the Information I was looking for. What about depreciation of EVs vs ICE? I assume if we are the verge of EV adoption, the depreciation on ICE vehicles will get worse….

I plan on using Ford Options to purchase my Lightning. It is a balloon loan program Ford has set up. Basically the loan has a balloon payment after 36 or 48 months. Like the truck, or it has high value, buy it out and keep/sell for a profit. Truck has lots of issues or depreciation hit it hard, give it back and make it Ford's problem. All the risk transfer benefits of a lease, but you get the title and tax credit.

 

[n8dgr8]

At $.10 per kw in my region, I figure it is about the equivalent of $.75 per gallon of gas. Seattle has very cheap electricity and very expensive gas. Paying to charge (not at home) on the go is usually as bad as gas or worse.

 

[Erik]

Exactly the Information I was looking for. What about depreciation of EVs vs ICE? I assume if we are the verge of EV adoption, the depreciation on ICE vehicles will get worse….

Depreciation is still hard to assess. So far we have had compliance cars and Teslas.

The compliance cars have lost a lot of value for several reasons.

1. They often had a range under 100 miles. EVs are now expected to go at least 200 miles and in 5 years the minimum may be 300 miles
2. The manufacturers offered limited support. I think only Nissan and BMW have offered battery or range extender upgrades after the sale and manufacturers are charging as much for a new battery as the cost of a new car.
3. The EV credit lowered the cost for replacements so the used cars had lower residual value

Teslas have retained their value well. They have always had more than 200 miles range, they have shown some support for upgrading batteries and other hardware, and the sale price for a new Tesla is only getting higher.

EVs should be able to last a million miles as long as the manufacturer keeps supporting them. Lithium Ion batteries should last 3,500 cycles if you typically keep the charge between 20% and 80%. So the extended range battery should be able to last 1,050,000 miles.

As batteries get cheaper and more energy dense, it should be possible at some point to upgrade to a battery that can go 500 miles on a charge for $10k to $15k. If Ford gives me that option in 10 years, then I would buy the new battery and hopefully get some money back for my old battery as those cells can be used for home backup or by utilities.

As long as Ford supports older models with battery upgrades and updated entertainment systems, then you should be able to use an F150 for decades and the depreciation will be low. Then again if they treat it like my VW where they stopped updating the maps after 5 years, then it could lose value quick.

 

[Pilot2022]

Depreciation is still hard to assess. So far we have had compliance cars and Teslas.

The compliance cars have lost a lot of value for several reasons.

1. They often had a range under 100 miles. EVs are now expected to go at least 200 miles and in 5 years the minimum may be 300 miles
2. The manufacturers offered limited support. I think only Nissan and BMW have offered battery or range extender upgrades after the sale and manufacturers are charging as much for a new battery as the cost of a new car.
3. The EV credit lowered the cost for replacements so the used cars had lower residual value

Teslas have retained their value well. They have always had more than 200 miles range, they have shown some support for upgrading batteries and other hardware, and the sale price for a new Tesla is only getting higher.

EVs should be able to last a million miles as long as the manufacturer keeps supporting them. Lithium Ion batteries should last 3,500 cycles if you typically keep the charge between 20% and 80%. So the extended range battery should be able to last 1,050,000 miles.

As batteries get cheaper and more energy dense, it should be possible at some point to upgrade to a battery that can go 500 miles on a charge for $10k to $15k. If Ford gives me that option in 10 years, then I would buy the new battery and hopefully get some money back for my old battery as those cells can be used for home backup or by utilities.

As long as Ford supports older models with battery upgrades and updated entertainment systems, then you should be able to use an F150 for decades and the depreciation will be low. Then again if they treat it like my VW where they stopped updating the maps after 5 years, then it could lose value quick.

Great points. If they only make less than 200k of these vehicles and next gen is coming, I can see ford dropping support earlier vs if this was a 5-7 year launch platform.

given that its Ford, I have some hope that there might be aftermarket options to replace batteries

 

[Smokewagun]

Great information! Thank you all. As expected, my electricity costs to charge at home should be about $100 per month. That’s less than 1/5 of my monthly fuel bill. I understand winter is worse, other variables exist, but for my daily driver for a few years while I decide on a weekend warrior Superduty to haul a travel trailer or fiver, this Lightning could save me upwards of $5000 a year, based upon preliminary figures. No tax credit figured.

 

[metroshot]

At $.10 per kw in my region, I figure it is about the equivalent of $.75 per gallon of gas. Seattle has very cheap electricity and very expensive gas. Paying to charge (not at home) on the go is usually as bad as gas or worse.

Wow, must be nice in the PNW for low electricity and fuel costs.

We in Southern California are paying way more for both but at least we have a Time of Use (TOU) option for EV charging at home.

With fuel at near $5/gallon prices; driving an EV or PHEV makes a lot of difference.

My wife's commute which used to cost her $400 per month on fuel driving an ICE now has zero fuel costs driving the PHEV.
Electricity bill went up $50 / month so that's still a huge savings.
Plus the utility gave $1000 rebate and the state gave $2500 (CVRP).

With the Ford, I am thinking of adding a separate TOU meter from SCE to reap more savings as the battery pack will need a lot more kWh:

 

[adoublee]

Wow, must be nice in the PNW for low electricity and fuel costs.

We in Southern California are paying way more for both but at least we have a Time of Use (TOU) option for EV charging at home.

With fuel at near $5/gallon prices; driving an EV or PHEV makes a lot of difference.

My wife's commute which used to cost her $400 per month on fuel driving an ICE now has zero fuel costs driving the PHEV.
Electricity bill went up $50 / month so that's still a huge savings.
Plus the utility gave $1000 rebate and the state gave $2500 (CVRP).

With the Ford, I am thinking of adding a separate TOU meter from SCE to reap more savings as the battery pack will need a lot more kWh:

Buy two Lightnings, leave one home during the day as a powerwall ?

 

[EaglesPDX]

What about depreciation of EVs vs ICE?

EV depreciation should be worse due the faster tech evolution vs. the static ICE. But it is very model dependent. Tesla Model 3 holds its value very well, Chevy Volts not so much. And the Volt was a great car. I think current models like Ford MachE, VW ID4, Audi eTron, Hyundai Ioniq, Kia EV6, Nissan Ariya will hold their value vs. the early EV's like Leaf.

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