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I'm so old
- Thread starter Tell It Right
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LightningShow
Well-known member
The cost to add 33kWh to a battery pack is less than $4,000. That's why it only costs 7-10k to upgrade for the Pro or Lariat. Tesla adds 20kWh AND a second motor between the Model 3 and Model 3 Long Range for only $6k increase in MSRP. Ford intentionally barred retail customers from purchasing a 300 mile truck for under $75k because it's still a relatively exclusive feature, not because the cost is significantly more.
EaglesPDX
Well-known member
More like $5k just for the battery and then another $2k(?) for extras for bigger battery.
This is all moot as the cost differential between EV and ICE F150's is low as Ford made a decision to cut into F150 profits and use 4M as the production volume to project lower costs for F150EV that it will not have until it is building 4M a year.
PungoteagueDave
Well-known member
Ridiculous. Actuality is $3-4k. The difference is mostly manufacturer pricing in tax credits, plus demand driven pricing premiums. Tesla proved this when the credits lapsed on their products - prices were reduced immediately.
PungoteagueDave
Well-known member
They don't cost significantly more. People are willing to pay more. And there's a value differential supporting that.
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EaglesPDX
Well-known member
"Battery Pack Prices Fall to an Average of $132/kWh, But Rising Commodity Prices Start to Bite"
Pushing prices during the shortage back to $150kWh range. So the $5k is the number with more basis in fact. Likely another $2k(?) for other parts to handle the bigger battery.
Bottom line EV's are going to be a LOT more expensive.
The surprise is that the F150EV was not a LOT MORE than the ICE. As Ford Exce. Darren Palmer noted, only by using a 4M economy of scale estimate which the EV won't hit for probably five years from now.
Since Ford did equalize the prices, the claim that Ford was deceptive about F150EV pricing is proven wrong.
LightningShow
Well-known member
Battery pack prices have a portion of fixed cost not associated with the capacity. If you already have a 98kWh battery the cost per kWh to increase it to a 131kWh battery is not the same as the cost of building a new 131kWh battery from scratch (which would be roughly $130/kWh) since the fixed cost associated with the battery is already in the cost of the 98kWh battery. The change in cost is almost entirely in the battery cells (as opposed to the casing, some fixed labor costs, manufacturing equipment depreciation, etc), so for Ford to upgrade to 131kWh from 98kWh for the same battery design, will cost less than $130/kWh. That's why it is less than $4,000 to upgrade.
Here is an explanation:
https://getelectricvehicle.com/ev-battery-cell-pack-prices-dropping-at-surprising-rate/
If you break it down to only EVs passenger vehicles the pack cost is actually only $118/kWh and just cells it's $97/kWh. Which would make Ford's upgrade cost ~$3200 for the cells plus some ancillary costs. Your estimate of $2,000 in parts to handle the bigger battery is outlandish. It's a few hundred, at most. Total cost to Ford for the upgrade is well under $4,000. This doesn't even consider my earlier point that it's cheaper per kWh to upgrade than to build a full battery.
Although you're right that it's moot, I already explained why. They priced it based on current market value of a relatively low volume 300 mile truck, not what the added cost of 33kWh would be. They can't produce enough to meet demand for the foreseeable future and there is no competition so they can charge a significant premium. When the industry production capacity of EV trucks is getting towards 1M/yr, 300+ mile trucks will be more price competitive with ICE.
EaglesPDX
Well-known member
When the rest of the world breaks it down (see links above) it comes out a bit higher at both battery and EV level which is why the price differential is around $15-20k in favor of the same ICE vehicle vs. an EV. If you want to believe your $118 kWh vs. the actual $132 kWh and rising due to shortages from the industry report linked above, that is your prerogative.
Not sure why this dead horse is in the race though as Ford did not pass on the added battery costs in the F150EV so the claim that Ford was deceptive on pricing as the OP does is proven incorrect. Again see links above.
LightningShow
Well-known member
The average cost for a kWh of EV battery cells in 2021 was $97. That's not my prerogative. If you want to overestimate the actual costs Ford will incur for the ER battery, that's an example of "prerogative".
I agree there was no deception. Ford isn't required to price the vehicle how other people want it priced. The only thing they claimed was some rough base pricing and the final pricing met those claims. They never said what it would cost for an ER upgrade for any model.
EaglesPDX
Well-known member
"Battery Pack Prices Fall to an Average of $132/kWh, But Rising Commodity Prices Start to Bite"
Above is more reliable source than your raw opinion. It's 11/21 source.
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LightningShow
Well-known member
That article says exactly the same thing that I posted. $97/kWh for cells. Prices were higher in the 4th quarter, $110/kWh, and prices are expected to go down, not up, in the long term. So Ford's ER upgrade costs $3600 instead of $3300 in the 4th quarter but will certainly be below $3000 before the next gen Lightning.
You were wrong about the cost of the ER upgrade. Your own link shows that. Time to stop digging.
EaglesPDX
Well-known member
"Battery Pack Prices Fall to an Average of $132/kWh, But Rising Commodity Prices Start to Bite"
It looks to say $132 vs. your $97.
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