I'm so old

[LightningShow]

Why would you have expected the F150 EV to be less than the F150 ICE?

Ford F-150 Lightning Is Priced Much Like Gas F-150, But How? If you configure a gas-powered F-150 to mirror each Lightning trim, you'll be shocked how closely the prices match up.

It's kinda close on the SR but there's a massive premium for the ER battery which throws it way out of whack with the ICE vehicle. Partly for the battery upgrade cost and partly because they force you into a lot of expensive options that not everybody would buy otherwise.

EDIT: it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if the range was 275/350 but 230 is borderline for typical family vehicle duty which is what I would expect most people are using it for. $75k entry price is a big premium for 300 miles since it's just barely competitive with top end EV range today and will quickly fall into the low end of the contenders. If they didn't rope XLT buyers into a $10k option package to get the ER battery then none of this would be an issue.


EDIT #2: Even if you can live with the SR XLT, Ford deviously put some basic options like heated seats/steering wheel in the $9,500 312A package. That means you can't even get a Lightning with heated seats, even in SR trim, for less than $65k. That's a bitter pill for anyone in a colder climate where those options have become nearly standard, or very cheap, on many cars. As this article notes, it's a big deal for EVs because the heated accessories use much less energy than the HVAC system.

Although, it appears to get heated seats in an ICE XLT it's a $5700 option package so maybe Ford has just decided to use that feature as an anchor to upsell on other features. What happened to $1500 "winter" packages? I just went on the Silverado build page and heated seats is a no cost upgrade on the LT. So, WTF Ford?

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/...p-revealed-build-and-price-configurator-live/

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[EaglesPDX]

The list goes on

Indeed. Here's the most straight-up identical model to identical model.

Kona ICE $29k
Kona EV $46k

There's no getting around a $500 ICE drive train vs. a $15k battery one. That goes up as they get larger.

It's pretty well documented, read the following, Google the title for reference after reference on why EV's cost more money. There are no references on EV's being cheaper.

"Why an Electric Car Battery Is So Expensive, For Now"

But to this topic, Ford's pricing, I don't think it is fair to call Ford deceptive in any way on pricing. I expected, everyone expected the $10-20k EV differential but Ford came much closer to EV pricing, taking some out of profit and the rest by projecting a 4M volume on a 200,000 in next three years as Darren Palmer explains.

So I knew I had to break that barrier. So the top half of this truck has a scale of 4 million units. That seat, we buy 4 million of. We get the best price in the industry. The front trunk, apart from the unique components, the whole rest of the truck, we get 4 million units.”

 

[Tell It Right]

OP probably is 100% sure Chevy is going to offer their long range base model at $50k-ish to non-fleet ASAP and this exact realization he's had today will hit in about a year

Last May's tease then renege by Ford hasn't made me forever ban the plan to buy an EV truck. It just means I'll have to put it off for a while.

I did the same with my solar system on my house. I waited years for the quality to improve and the prices to come down before I finally put a solar system onto my house last year. Maybe an EV truck will be practical in a couple of years.

 

[Blainestang]

Indeed. Here's the most straight-up identical model to identical model.

Kona ICE $29k
Kona EV $46k

Even the numbers you used (which aren't even accurate for the current Kona) aren't $20k apart... even before the tax credit.

The two most comparable Kona trims from gas to EV are:

N-Line (gas, $25,700) vs. Electric SEL ($34,000, before credit) = $8,300 difference
SEL (gas, $28,450) vs Electric Limited ($42,500 before credit) = $14,050 difference

So, neither of those are even close to $20k, and I gave multiple examples where there's no price difference... one of which is even MORE identical to the gas version, the Cooper SE vs Cooper S.

$20k is nowhere near typical.

But to this topic, Ford's pricing, I don't think it is fair to call Ford deceptive in any way on pricing.

You're the only one who has said "deceptive" in this thread. So, you created a strawman to argue against.

I expected, everyone expected the $10-20k EV differential but Ford came much closer to EV pricing

What "everyone" expected before the reveal is irrelevant. Ford priced the Pro SR below the gas version at the reveal, and didn't originally make it clear that the Pro ER was fleet only, so OP was hoping for a Pro ER for $50k or something closer than a ~50% increase from there for the cheapest ER truck.[/QUOTE]

 

[EaglesPDX]

The two most comparable Kona trims from gas to EV are:

2022 Kona ICE Base $20,500
2022 Kona EV Base $34,000
$14k

2022 Kona ICE Limited (top model) $28,450
2022 Kona EV Limited (top model) $42,460
$14k

And the Kona is a smaller EV with the cost differential in the battery and EV drive train which is why the differential increases as the vehicle gets bigger.

 

[Pedaldude]

The Marxist in me wants Ford to build an affordable BEV pickup truck for the masses.

But as a Ford stockholder, I want them to charge as much as they can get away with before everyone and their cousin is building an electric truck.

 

[West Suburban F150]

Yeah you old

 

[Blainestang]

2022 Kona ICE Base $20,500
2022 Kona EV Base $34,000
$14k

Terrible comparison.

The ICE base is stripped and has 150hp to the EV at 200hp. The most comparable gas version is the N-Line with similar features and power to the "base" EV version. But even if this was a good comparison, which it isn't, $14k is not $20k, which you claimed to be typical.

2022 Kona ICE Limited (top model) $28,450
2022 Kona EV Limited (top model) $42,460
$14k

Yeah, I literally posted this same comparison in my previous post. One example of $14k (which is way lower than $20k) does not prove that $20k is typical... especially since there are several where the EV is around the same price as the most similar ICE.

And the Kona is a smaller EV with the cost differential in the battery and EV drive train which is why the differential increases as the vehicle gets bigger.

It's easier to hide the battery drivetrain cost differential in more expensive vehicles. That's one reason why manufacturers start with expensive cars and one reason why no one has been able to make a really low end, long range, fast-charging EV yet.

 

[EaglesPDX]

there's a massive premium for the ER battery

That's because it costs a lot more.

 

[EaglesPDX]

especially since there are several where the EV is around the same price as the most similar ICE.

Other examples were comparing different models, Taycan vs. Panamera, and that doesn't work.

The added costs for EV's are well documented.

 

[Blainestang]

Other examples were comparing different models, Taycan vs. Panamera, and that doesn't work.

The added costs for EV's are well documented.

I didn’t say there are no added costs, so stop with the strawmen arguments to distract from your original claim that $20k was typical, which you’ve provided zero examples of.

Also, it’s disingenuous to pretend like my “exampleS” were of different models. One was (but there are limited same-model examples) and one wasn’t (Cooper SE vs Cooper S).

Fact is, there are some EVs that are priced gas-competitive, and there are some that are higher, but a $20k difference is absolutely not typical.

I’m done replying to you on this topic as you’ve resorted to misrepresenting my examples and moving the goalposts rather than actually defend your original $20k claim.

 

[EaglesPDX]

$20k was typical

That is about right. '21 Kona's were $17k differential for small EV. If you want to compare cross brands, Subaru Legacy four door sedan vs. Model 3 four door sedan, it's $25k. That's the premium I paid going electric, $25k.

Ford MachE Premium (2nd level) AWD $57k
Ford Explorer XLT (2nd level) AWD $37k

To this topic, Ford 150EV and ICE's are much closer in price so that claims that Ford was making them too expensive is incorrect. Claiming Ford was somehow deceptive on EV pricing is also incorrect.

 

[LightningShow]

That's because it costs a lot more.

Based on current battery prices the added cost is probably $3-4k, which makes a $20k premium very high for the XLT trim. $7k premium is reasonable for the Lariat. 50% gross margin on premium accessories is pretty typical. The stripped down truck surely has almost no margin. They're willing to sell a Pro ER to fleet customers for $52k out the door. They aren't losing money on that truck, for sure. So, yeah, I feel $22k premium ($74k MSRP), at a minimum, to get into a consumer ER battery is a huge premium. You get some other options as part of that package but if you got those options a la carte it would be maybe $5k.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Based on current battery prices the added cost is probably $3-4k,

$10-$20K is the range for EV cost over ICE.

 

[astricklin]

We get it, everyone's mad because it cost roughly double to get the ER battery. Most people assumed it would not cost this much over the base model. Ford has priced it where they have for the first year model. Either buy one or don't.

Personally, I'm going to wait and see if they decide to offer the ER battery on the pro for 2023 or hope that Chevy offers a 300+ mile truck in the $40-60k range.

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