Updated Ford Intelligent Backup Power page (no longer) details 320-Amp Home Service o_O

[adoublee]

I install Level2 chargers (and solar) for a living, so I know a thing or two about Level 2 chargers as well as people's sentiments about what they think they need in order to be comfortable owning an EV.

Join the club. I'm not going to share credentials but have plenty in solar, BESS, EVSE selection/connections, and overall electrical design as well as EV ownership. Your characterisation of charging at 80A/240VAC as hyperFAST and pure luxury is misleading and bound to result in frustration for many who might follow your advice. You clearly have not researched the details of the Lightning as the 131kWh is the usable pack size, and the vehicle is going to be much much closer to 2kWh/mile than 3kWh/mile, before any towing demand or winter derate.

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[Griddlez]

Tom Moloughny (sp?) refuted this requirement in another forum after speaking with Ford engineers last week and said that he’ll be posting a YouTube video soon with findings from his conversation with them

Yep - I tweeted him about this on twitter and he confirmed what you said. His replies also got liked by Emma Bergg & Mike Levine so I am assuming they support his comments.

 

[irpete]

My electrician even suggested this, but my panel is in a finished basement on a weird framed bump-out on an exterior wall... it would require quite a bit of work to stuff another panel in that area. I also wasn't quite sure how it would work with a solar system or battery system. For me anyway it was too much work and cost.

I currently have 320 amp service with two 200 amp panels. I also have 10 kw solar and two Tesla Powerwalls. Having the two panels works great with these systems. In fact, it has allowed me to separate my "critical loads" into one panel that is backed up by the Powerwalls. The other panel feeds things I can live without in a power-down scenario. Totally understand the space problem though but if you could figure that out it may be a more cost-effective way to go.

 

[RickLightning]

Hyper-fast charging in your garage is overrated. In a "normal" electric car you will charge at about a mile per hour per amp. So 40 amps will charge you 40 miles range in an hour. An electric truck will be less efficient on the road than a Tesla (ie worse miles/kwh) so maybe consider it 4/5 mile range per amp of charge per hour, but still, how many people really care if your truck charges in your garage 130 miles of range in 4 hours or 260? How often do you really need to go from empty battery to full one very quickly when you have a 130kwh battery pack? Only when you are stopped during a long highway trip at a restaurant and want to maximize range during dinner. When at home, 40 amps will more than meet the needs for virtually everyone virtually all the time. Of course, bigger and faster is always better, until of course it isn't because you need a heavy-up and a 400 amp panel.

I don't know where you're getting these numbers from, but Ford says differently.

For the extended range battery, they say it's 13 hours for 48amps or 19 hours for 32 amps. By doing simple math, that's 16 hours for 40 amps.

Your math says 40 x 16 = 640 miles. Not even close.

For the Mach-E, Ford shows a 32amp charger providing 22 miles per hour, and a 48amp charger providing 32 miles per hour. Again, simple math says 27 miles for 40 amps.

 

[Maquis]

I don't know where you're getting these numbers from, but Ford says differently.

For the extended range battery, they say it's 13 hours for 48amps or 19 hours for 32 amps. By doing simple math, that's 16 hours for 40 amps.

Your math says 40 x 16 = 640 miles. Not even close.

For the Mach-E, Ford shows a 32amp charger providing 22 miles per hour, and a 48amp charger providing 32 miles per hour. Again, simple math says 27 miles for 40 amps.

Agreed.

We’d all be better off if we stop using “miles per hour” as a charge rate. It’s really kWh per hour. Then, if you want to figure out how many miles you’ve added, multiply the kWh you’ve added by your current consumption. Current consumption will vary wildly, especially if you’re ’lucky’ enough to experience winter. With my Mach-E, I can get 3.5 or more miles per kWh in the summer. Short trips in the winter can fall to 1.5 miles per kWh without preconditioning. EPA rating is about 3.1 miles per kWh.

 

[Sklith]

kWh per hour

So kW then.

I'm relieved Ford's putting a 19.2kW onboard charger into their first electric pickup. It's comforting to know I can top-off my EV at a high power rating in case an unexpected trip comes. Even if I know I'll be doing a long drive the next day, I'll charge to only 80% at night, and then top off an hour before I go.

 

[RickLightning]

So kW then.

I'm relieved Ford's putting a 19.2kW onboard charger into their first electric pickup. It's comforting to know I can top-off my EV at a high power rating in case an unexpected trip comes. Even if I know I'll be doing a long drive the next day, I'll charge to only 80% at night, and then top off an hour before I go.

Your planned charging is unnecessarily complex. Sure, do what you want, but note the following for others.

Ford recommends charging to 90%, not 80%. Why? Because they aren't giving access to the entire battery, so 90% isn't 90%. On the Mach-E extended edition, only 91kWh of the 98kWh is accessible to be used by the customer (was 88, recently increased). 91/98 = 92.9% of the battery. Charging to 90% is therefore 92.9 x .9 = 83.6%.

Second, the average customer is going to notice absolutely no difference in battery life by waiting until 1 hour prior to departure vs. charging to 100% overnight. Zero difference. I'd suggest that even years out, you won't be able to find that difference without testing the battery with instruments.

Lastly, you're not going to go from 80% to 100% in an hour...

 

[Sklith]

Your planned charging is unnecessarily complex. Sure, do what you want, but note the following for others.

I hardly see setting an 80% charge limit as unnecessarily complex. Besides, 80% of a 300 mile range EV covers almost all of my daily driving. During the summer, I even limit to 60%.

Just because Ford recommends charging to 90% daily doesn't mean you have to.

 

[RickLightning]

I hardly see setting an 80% charge limit as unnecessarily complex. Besides, 80% of a 300 mile range EV covers almost all of my daily driving. During the summer, I even limit to 60%.

Just because Ford recommends charging to 90% daily doesn't mean you have to.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Your plan to charge to 80%, and then 1 hour before leaving charge to 100%, is unnecessarily complex. It's also, as I noted, impossible, because you're not going to get from 80% to 100%.

The unnecessarily complex comment refers to the difference between charging to 100% the night prior, vs. one hour before. That's going to make zippo difference in noticeable battery life over the ownership of the vehicle.

I did neglect to mention that your plan also doesn't allow for setting a departure time, which in cold weather might take 45 minutes to ramp up. So, you'll need to get to 100% at least 1 hour before leaving if you set a departure time.

 

[Sklith]

Way to be hyper focused on the specifics on my habits. I'll hold to my guns here by saying that leaving an EV that doesn't have LiFePO chemistry overnight at 100% is not a good idea.

 

[adoublee]

I'm relieved Ford's putting a 19.2kW onboard charger into their first electric pickup. It's comforting to know I can top-off my EV at a high power rating in case an unexpected trip comes.

I agree - the difference versus the Rivian 11.52kW onboard charger may make for a better day to day experience improvement versus Rivian's superiority in DC fast charging "spec" (I have a whole separate thread on the Rivian DC fast charge reality). For those who mostly travel local that is. This is going to make the Lightning a MUCH better fleet vehicle when production gets to those customers.

Also - In my area many of the public level 2 AC stations will be limited to 6.24kW as they are likely to be connected with 208V which will derate power over 240V in most residences, and are limited to 30A in the case of most of the Chargepoint stations that have already gone in. Something to remember if considering those stations when traveling.

 

[Sklith]

I've found a few 11+kW public chargers in my area but they're all Tesla destination ones so I'll make sure to pick up a TeslaTap.

 

[Maquis]

I'll hold to my guns here by saying that leaving an EV that doesn't have LiFePO chemistry overnight at 100% is not a good idea.

The Ford design is such that “100% charge” is actually about 90% of the actual battery capacity.
So it’s not possible to charge the battery to 100%.

 

[RonTCat]

Based on recent updates to the Intelligent Backup page:
https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/features/intelligent-backup-power/

About 1/3 of the way down the page a graphic states 320 Amp service is required! This seems like an odd number.

I totally get the 100 amp dedicated circuit for the 80-amp Charge Station Pro. That makes perfect sense. Your home has to have sufficient service to cover existing loads plus the new 80 amp charger. That also makes sense.

I wonder if many folks actually have 320 amp service already? (Not us, we've only got 150 amp service and suspected we might likely be looking at an upgrade anyway if we wanted to take full advantage of the 80 amp charger and run the rest of our house.)

Maybe I've missed it, but there aren't 320 amp mains panels that I've ever seen looking at the standard residential stuff on the DIY box store sites? Seems like a pretty odd requirement. Our provider (AEP) website has a request form to upgrade from 100/200/400 to 100/200/400 amp service. Assuming the 80% rule applies, looks like we might have to submit a request for some heavier 400 amp cable runs along with the upgraded meter base (and meter) to cover the 320 amp service requirement. I can't imagine that will be free.

The 320 amp service might either be fed by a 400 amp (non-continuous) meter base at 80%, or a 320 amp meter base with maybe two 150 amp panels somehow, though that doesn't seem quite right either. Maybe they're adding a 100 amp dedicated charger circuit along with the typical modern home's existing 150-200 amp service? Considering they ultimately plan to feed house loads with an inverter and transfer switch, not sure how that would all work with the 320 amp service, that's a hefty transfer switch. Maybe they're expecting to re-wire things a bit to feed a separate backed-up loads panel?


Any electricians out there that might have some insight? Hopefully we'll continue to see more and more information released on the IBP and "Home Integration Solution" as we get closer to deliveries. Unless I'm mistaken, Sunrun doesn't seem to produce products of their own, so they almost have to be using someone else's gear. Should also be fun since they're not in my state.

All of this will be interesting to see if (or how) nicely it will "play" with my home's existing solar back-end of a SolarEdge Backup Interface (whole home backup device with integrated transfer switch and optional standalone generator input) coupled with panels, Energy Hub Inverters and a LG RESU10H backup battery.

Guess I'll have to keep doing research on the Ford/Sunrun Home Integration platform. Are you in the same or a similar boat? Let's keep track of what we learn here!

Notice anything different?

 

[Sklith]

Nice, they finally fixed their messaging there. As long as your panel can take the 80A charger you won't need to expand.

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