Updated Ford Intelligent Backup Power page (no longer) details 320-Amp Home Service o_O

[kny]

Also, ER charging time from 15% on 80A is still 8 hours, so that power level may be highly desirable for those who have a heavy daily utilization cycle. 15-16 hours on a 40A charger could be a painful wait after a full day of driving or towing.

Hyper-fast charging in your garage is overrated. In a "normal" electric car you will charge at about a mile per hour per amp. So 40 amps will charge you 40 miles range in an hour. An electric truck will be less efficient on the road than a Tesla (ie worse miles/kwh) so maybe consider it 4/5 mile range per amp of charge per hour, but still, how many people really care if your truck charges in your garage 130 miles of range in 4 hours or 260? How often do you really need to go from empty battery to full one very quickly when you have a 130kwh battery pack? Only when you are stopped during a long highway trip at a restaurant and want to maximize range during dinner. When at home, 40 amps will more than meet the needs for virtually everyone virtually all the time. Of course, bigger and faster is always better, until of course it isn't because you need a heavy-up and a 400 amp panel.

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[hturnerfamily]

the CCS plug is only used for DC FAST CHARGING, using DC power from a massive electrical 'box' designed to do that - your home's 80amp Charger is not going to be that, it is still simply a 80amp 240v charger using the normal J1772 plug.

 

[Ccarm6]

The 320 amp requirement (for what it is) only appears to apply to the Intelligent Backup Power with Home Integration configuration.

Tom Moloughny (sp?) refuted this requirement in another forum after speaking with Ford engineers last week and said that he’ll be posting a YouTube video soon with findings from his conversation with them

 

[rdr854]

"80 amp charger and do not want to power the house "

I'd sell the charger unless you have some upgrade later or really need the 80A charge rate for some reason. That is a lot of power for an EV.

Yes, you should be not only able to use that charger alone, you should be able to control it's maximum charge rate.

Why would I want to sell the charger that Ford gives me with the truck just to buy a different charger? What am I missing?

 

[shutterbug]

the CCS plug is only used for DC FAST CHARGING, using DC power from a massive electrical 'box' designed to do that - your home's 80amp Charger is not going to be that, it is still simply a 80amp 240v charger using the normal J1772 plug.

Are you sure about that? Every picture I've seen of Charge Station Pro has a CCS plug.

 

[shutterbug]

Why would I want to sell the charger that Ford gives me with the truck just to buy a different charger? What am I missing?

Depends on what it's value is. If you can sell it for $2,000 and buy another for $600, why wouldn't you sell it? This is assuming you don't need an 80A charging.

 

[rdr854]

Depends on what it's value is. If you can sell it for $2,000 and buy another for $600, why wouldn't you sell it? This is assuming you don't need an 80A charging.

According to Ford, it is 8 hours vs 13 hours for an Extended Range battery. If I get home late at night and need to leave first thing in the AM, then I am more likely to have a sufficient charge.

 

[adoublee]

Hyper-fast charging in your garage is overrated. In a "normal" electric car you will charge at about a mile per hour per amp. So 40 amps will charge you 40 miles range in an hour. An electric truck will be less efficient on the road than a Tesla (ie worse miles/kwh) so maybe consider it 4/5 mile range per amp of charge per hour, but still, how many people really care if your truck charges in your garage 130 miles of range in 4 hours or 260? How often do you really need to go from empty battery to full one very quickly when you have a 130kwh battery pack? Only when you are stopped during a long highway trip at a restaurant and want to maximize range during dinner. When at home, 40 amps will more than meet the needs for virtually everyone virtually all the time. Of course, bigger and faster is always better, until of course it isn't because you need a heavy-up and a 400 amp panel.

I've never heard of anyone refer to 8 hours as hyperfast. Some people will use a good portion of their battery daily, but even if they don't they are not going to be happy the first time they do drain the battery and it takes a week of on and off charging to get full again.

 

[shutterbug]

According to Ford, it is 8 hours vs 13 hours for an Extended Range battery. If I get home late at night and need to leave first thing in the AM, then I am more likely to have a sufficient charge.

Or put another way. You come home very late with very little charge left, leave very early AND need to drive over 100 miles, but less than 150 miles the next day AND have no place to charge during the day AND do that on a regular basis

 

[rdr854]

Or put another way. You come home very late with very little charge left, leave very early AND need to drive over 100 miles, but less than 150 miles the next day AND have no place to charge during the day AND do that on a regular basis

And when we return to the office, my daily round trip without any stops is 75 miles. If it’s crappy weather, would be nice to be able to dash into the house without having to plug in every night. And if we get a second EV, then all the more reason to have quicker charge times since we cannot support two 60 amp circuits With 200 amp service for EV charging.

 

[shutterbug]

And when we return to the office, my daily round trip without any stops is 75 miles. If it’s crappy weather, would be nice to be able to dash into the house without having to plug in every night. And if we get a second EV, then all the more reason to have quicker charge times since we cannot support two 60 amp circuits With 200 amp service for EV charging.

Plugging in takes what? 5 seconds. I don't see it as a huge burden.

With 2 EVs you'd be probably better off with two chargers that can do circuit sharing.

 

[kny]

I've never heard of anyone refer to 8 hours as hyperfast. Some people will use a good portion of their battery daily, but even if they don't they are not going to be happy the first time they do drain the battery and it takes a week of on and off charging to get full again.

"8 hours" is not a measurement of rate of charging. kwh per time unit is a measure of rate of charging. And 80amp charging puts in the kwh/hour so fast as to be "hyperfast" in my book; certainly faster than home charging requires for virtually everyone, though not fast enough for highway rest stop charging.

Almost no one drives 400 miles daily or uses 100+kwh daily in an EV. For virtually everyone it will not matter in their normal use and home charging whether they have 40 amp charging or 80 amp charging. If they drive 60 miles a day it will not matter whether it takes 1.5 hours or 45 minutes to top off the battery. Or if they drive 150 miles a day whether the overnight refill last 4 hours or 2 hours. Frankly, even if they have the amps to funnel in the kwh in 2 hours it is better to do it in 4 as a 10kw charge (40 amp) is better for the battery than a 20kw charge (80 amp).

80 amp charging is overkill for home charging in 99.9+% of circumstances. Maybe there will be the rare person who daily empties a 400 mile capacity battery and needs it completely full again and ready for another 400 miles in just a few hours, but I'm guessing that person is not buying an electric vehicle. For virtually everyone who charges at home the refill rate of a 40 amp charge rate will be more than sufficient to replace what they used that day.

 

[adoublee]

"8 hours" is not a measurement of rate of charging. kwh per time unit is a measure of rate of charging. And 80amp charging puts in the kwh/hour so fast as to be "hyperfast" in my book; certainly faster than home charging requires for virtually everyone, though not fast enough for highway rest stop charging.

Almost no one drives 400 miles daily or uses 100+kwh daily in an EV. For virtually everyone it will not matter in their normal use and home charging whether they have 40 amp charging or 80 amp charging. If they drive 60 miles a day it will not matter whether it takes 1.5 hours or 45 minutes to top off the battery. Or if they drive 150 miles a day whether the overnight refill last 4 hours or 2 hours. Frankly, even if they have the amps to funnel in the kwh in 2 hours it is better to do it in 4 as a 10kw charge (40 amp) is better for the battery than a 20kw charge (80 amp).

80 amp charging is overkill for home charging in 99.9+% of circumstances. Maybe there will be the rare person who daily empties a 400 mile capacity battery and needs it completely full again and ready for another 400 miles in just a few hours, but I'm guessing that person is not buying an electric vehicle. For virtually everyone who charges at home the refill rate of a 40 amp charge rate will be more than sufficient to replace what they used that day.

Where are you coming up with this 400 mile number? I don't think you appreciate the size of a 131kWh usable battery or how many kWh the Lightning is going to consume versus your "typical" EV. There is a reason they are including an 80A charger with the extended range Lightning. It may be hyperPOWER for a residence, but it is by no means hyperFAST (a measure of TIME) no matter how novel 19.2kW in the home (or any public level 2 for that matter) is.

 

[kny]

Where are you coming up with this 400 mile number? I don't think you appreciate the size of a 131kWh usable battery or how many kWh the Lightning is going to consume versus your "typical" EV. There is a reason they are including an 80A charger with the extended range Lightning. It may be hyperPOWER for a residence, but it is by no means hyperFAST (a measure of TIME) no matter how novel 19.2kW in the home (or any public level 2 for that matter) is.

I install Level2 chargers (and solar) for a living, so I know a thing or two about Level 2 chargers as well as people's sentiments about what they think they need in order to be comfortable owning an EV. Everyone wants bigger amps and faster charging, almost never is it needed for their actual use. Will truck owners be different? Doubtful. 400 miles is 3 miles/kwh for a 131 kwh battery pack. Lighter and aerodynamic electric sedans like Tesla get closer to 5 mile/kwh, but a heavy, wind-blocking truck obviously won't. And the F-150 won't get 400 miles because the entire 131 kwh pack is not opened up to use. But I wanted to be generous so I rounded up to 3 miles/kwh.

80amp simply isn't going to be necessary or utilized for the vast majority of people. That doesn't mean it isn't nice to have, all things being equal. But, when it requires a heavy-up and a new service panel and tearing up the house or yard to run crazy fat 2AWG wire from the panel to charger, all things aren't equal. The increased charging rate simply isn't necessary for most. That holds true for Tesla owners today and will hold true for F-150 owners tomorrow.

There's things worth arguing about and this ain't one. Ford is shipping with a high rate AC charger and the car supports 20kw AC charging. That's great. Certainly better than not supporting it. It's overkill for most everyone, but better to have the capability than not. I'm far more interested in learning about the details of the Home Power Backup capabilities, because that is what has the potential to shake up the energy world. Once people can start to use EV batteries as backup power for their homes and to arbitrage time-of-use utility rates, that is going to have major impact on the utilities. And it's coming. That is what drew me to this thread and what I'm interested in. Sorry about distracting with preaching that 80amp is overkill charging rate for most everyone - even truck owners.

 

[sotek2345]

I install Level2 chargers (and solar) for a living, so I know a thing or two about Level 2 chargers as well as people's sentiments about what they think they need in order to be comfortable owning an EV. Everyone wants bigger amps and faster charging, almost never is it needed for their actual use. Will truck owners be different? Doubtful. 400 miles is 3 miles/kwh for a 131 kwh battery pack. Lighter and aerodynamic electric sedans like Tesla get closer to 5 mile/kwh, but a heavy, wind-blocking truck obviously won't. And the F-150 won't get 400 miles because the entire 131 kwh pack is not opened up to use. But I wanted to be generous so I rounded up to 3 miles/kwh.

80amp simply isn't going to be necessary or utilized for the vast majority of people. That doesn't mean it isn't nice to have, all things being equal. But, when it requires a heavy-up and a new service panel and tearing up the house or yard to run crazy fat 2AWG wire from the panel to charger, all things aren't equal. The increased charging rate simply isn't necessary for most. That holds true for Tesla owners today and will hold true for F-150 owners tomorrow.

There's things worth arguing about and this ain't one. Ford is shipping with a high rate AC charger and the car supports 20kw AC charging. That's great. Certainly better than not supporting it. It's overkill for most everyone, but better to have the capability than not. I'm far more interested in learning about the details of the Home Power Backup capabilities, because that is what has the potential to shake up the energy world. Once people can start to use EV batteries as backup power for their homes and to arbitrage time-of-use utility rates, that is going to have major impact on the utilities. And it's coming. That is what drew me to this thread and what I'm interested in. Sorry about distracting with preaching that 80amp is overkill charging rate for most everyone - even truck owners.

You are off on your assumptions. 131kWhr is the usable capacity of the ER battery. The Lightning will get closer to 2 miles per kWhr (a little over) in good conditions, which is about 38 Miles per hour charging rate. In cold winter conditions, the Lightning will get closer to 1 mile per kWhr or 19-20 miles per hour of charging on the 80 amp line.

Tesla efficiency numbers don't apply here.

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