First time on CAT scales with PB and TT

[UGADawg96]

Dropped off our TT yesterday for some warranty work and had an opportunity to test the onboard scales again.

The default screen looks like this with the vertical limits and is pretty useless imho. This image is off of google images. This is the view we used back when starting the thread.

If you go into the menu, you can get the better horizontal view. This was before the WDH bars were engaged. This shows about 775lb of tongue weight.

Then with the WDH bars engaged, it lowered to about 700lbs of tongue weight.

They did agree that we should go up one set of holes on the hitch head, but not two holes. They are moving them for us while it is in for the work.

When we get it back, we'll reweigh at the cat scales. We plan to get the combined vehicles again and the truck alone without us in it to get the true curb weight after tires and line-x.

 

[Twg1]

This is a loaded PB 157” 4x4 lariat, minus sunroof and motorized running boards.
With 160lb driver and full tank.

 

[wayne b]

Dropped off our TT yesterday for some warranty work and had an opportunity to test the onboard scales again.

The default screen looks like this with the vertical limits and is pretty useless imho. This image is off of google images. This is the view we used back when starting the thread.

I've found the interface on the scales feature to be really confusing on both screens, probably because they are avoiding specifics. on the top screen, the 4 sections on the green bar add up to 1600, so you are under 800. The bottom screen, I think it's suggesting it's 775, but give or take 100lbs (the zone that's highlighted)? Smart hitch weight feature, similar confusion.

 

[UGADawg96]

So went to pick up the travel trailer from having the warranty work yesterday. They moved the hitch head up one set of holes. They then also did some minor adjustments and they felt that it was dialed in. It really didn't change much. Went across the CAT scales again, but this time got four measurements.

This spec'd TT is 5546 UVW and 515 hitch. It measured 6440 and 840 hitch. 13% tongue weight. When the WDH bars are connected, it moved 80 to the steer, removed 120 from the drive, and moved 20 to the TT axle. It is odd that the Gross Combined Weight changed 40 between the truck/TT being hitched and not hitched. It could have been that we had to move the trailer further back on the scales for the tongue to be on it. Or since these scales round to the closest 20 pounds, there is some math errors adding and transferring here and there.

Truck as built spec'd at 5827 curb. It measured 6120. Diff of 293. Estimating the following items make up that weight; XPEL tint on all six windows (5), weathertech hp mats (20), line-x (80), tires (80), hitch (90), pancake compressor (20), & some small misc. items.

Humans added 500 lbs.

End the end, with the WDH bars connected, we're ~70lb over 7350. That is less than 1%.

Based on all this, the only sensible solution here is eating less.

Below is the chart for reference:

 

[BLoflin]

So went to pick up the travel trailer from having the warranty work yesterday. They moved the hitch head up one set of holes. They then also did some minor adjustments and they felt that it was dialed in. It really didn't change much. Went across the CAT scales again, but this time got four measurements.

This spec'd TT is 5546 UVW and 515 hitch. It measured 6440 and 840 hitch. 13% tongue weight. When the WDH bars are connected, it moved 80 to the steer, removed 120 from the drive, and moved 20 to the TT axle. It is odd that the Gross Combined Weight changed 40 between the truck/TT being hitched and not hitched. It could have been that we had to move the trailer further back on the scales for the tongue to be on it. Or since these scales round to the closest 20 pounds, there is some math errors adding and transferring here and there.

Truck as built spec'd at 5827 curb. It measured 6120. Diff of 293. Estimating the following items make up that weight; XPEL tint on all six windows (5), weathertech hp mats (20), line-x (80), tires (80), hitch (90), pancake compressor (20), & some small misc. items.

Humans added 500 lbs.

End the end, with the WDH bars connected, we're ~70lb over 7350. That is less than 1%.

Based on all this, the only sensible solution here is eating less.

Below is the chart for reference:

Couple of thoughts.

One, yes, I thought I read somewhere that the CAT scales repeatability was 20lbs (or maybe it was +/- 10lbs).

Also, not sure but when talking Tongue Weight (when a WDH can be used) gets confusing. I would say your Trailer Tongue Weight is 860lb (6640-5580) as the trailer sits. But after engaging WDH as some weight is shifted back to Trailer Axle it becomes 840lb.

More importantly, from what I have read, I do NOT think your WDH is dialed in yet. I believe a WDH is supposed to return AT LEAST 50% of the "lost" weight back to the Front Axle (closer to 100% is even better). For you, Front Axle starts at 3760. Hitching trailer without WDH "loses" 320lb, (goes down to 3440). Engaging WDH "returns" only 80lbs. You would want the WDH to return at least 160lb or more. So you want your Front Axle back to 3600lb. If you could get it all the way back to approaching 3760 even better. As long as you don't go below 10% tongue weight.

If you can get the WD part of the WDH setup throwing another 80+lbs to Front Axle, you will also probably end up throwing more than 20lb back to the Trailer Axle. This will lower the Truck load by that much, getting you back even close to the GVWR, as you were very close as it is.

Of course you need to get some good trailering time in to see how it feels, but you might be able to move some trailer weight onto or behind the trailer axle, this would unload some more tongue weight (still staying at 10% or above). This would also get you back closer or below your truck GVWR. Techniques (besides just moved stuff around in the trailer) is figuring out where your tanks are (all 3). If fresh water is in front of the axle, travel empty and fill when nearing campground. Of course if it is behind axle, then filling would shift off tongue weight. Also you can use the trick of actually putting fresh water in your gray or black tank IF they are behind the trailer axle (and then dumping them before starting camping.

Then finally, getting back to the other issue (Onboard Scales).

If before you hitch up, you reset Scale Weight in Scale mode (the horizontal one) and then hitch up what does it show for added weight, first without WDH engaged and then when you engage WDH. Do those numbers correlate with your CAT scale computations? Similar using Smart Hitch, does it show your computed tongue weight (with and without WDH engaged) to correspond to CAT Scale computations.

Then the last is what does the Vehicle Mode show (the green vertical graph) with and without WDH engaged?

 

[UGADawg96]

Maybe I calculated the actual tongue weight incorrectly, but I used the difference between the truck with and without the trailer attached without the bars engaged. That calculated to 840. With the bars engaged, the tongue weight would drop to 800 (7420-6620) and weight is shifted to the steer and trailer axles.

General RV felt they have it dialed in. Both the truck and trailer are close to level with maybe 1/2"-1" lean both towards the front. Unless there are any Recurve R6 gurus here, not sure I'm going to get much more help from the RV dealer. The instructions aren't very clear to me for this hitch.

Even moving more weight to the steer axle won't really help the payload issue. And I really don't have the ability to move significant weight to the trailer axles without putting more things in the trailer. I feel that I either can accept 1% tolerance on payload or get my fat ass walking more and lose some weight. hah!

 

[UGADawg96]

It is funny that while I am freaking out about a 1% payload tolerance, I'm watching a majority of truck and travel trailers going down the road in my area with carolina squats and they have to be waaaaaay over payload. Not making excuses, just an observation.

 

[BLoflin]

It is funny that while I am freaking out about a 1% payload tolerance, I'm watching a majority of truck and travel trailers going down the road in my area with carolina squats and they have to be waaaaaay over payload. Not making excuses, just an observation.

Yep, I bet a lot of tow'ers buy a hitch and do it themself, without really understand WD (if they even are using a WDH.

Also still today 2022 (as many have observed in other posts), I can't find a RV Salesman that has ANY comprehension of Payload and payload rating and the vehicle GVWR.

I was at the latest RV convention and walked around (and purchased). There was over 300 RVs from ALL the manufacturers and from all the local RV businesses. I talked to over a dozen salesman about it. All they know and want to talk about is your vehicle tow capacity. Which for any F150, Ram1500, etc with a tow package and WDH is over 10,000lb pretty much. And known of the trailers come close to that. So all they say is NO PROBLEM....

 

[daemonic3]

You've done far more homework than 99% of the people with travel trailers! I think you're going to be fine.

You didn't mention fuel level but I think since you started with curb weight (that I think included fuel) and didn't subtract any then you must be full? So you'll get your 1% back anyway once you get down to half tank. Remember specs are set with worst case (or at least 2 sigma) tolerance stacking up across the system so there is always margin in the vast majority of trucks.

Sounds like you are ready to rock n roll on some adventures and enjoy your purchases!

 

[UGADawg96]

You've done far more homework than 99% of the people with travel trailers! I think you're going to be fine.

You didn't mention fuel level but I think since you started with curb weight (that I think included fuel) and didn't subtract any then you must be full? So you'll get your 1% back anyway once you get down to half tank. Remember specs are set with worst case (or at least 2 sigma) tolerance stacking up across the system so there is always margin in the vast majority of trucks.

Sounds like you are ready to rock n roll on some adventures and enjoy your purchases!

yes, all measurements were with close to full tank with maybe minus 1-2 gallons between fueling and weighing. I didn't gas up at the travel stop, but maybe 5-15 miles away.

 

[SuperRaptor]

It is funny that while I am freaking out about a 1% payload tolerance, I'm watching a majority of truck and travel trailers going down the road in my area with carolina squats and they have to be waaaaaay over payload. Not making excuses, just an observation.

While it's important to keep your weights proper the more important thing is how the setup actually handles. I've towed a lot of different trailers and some have only towed comfortably at 7-8% tongue weight while some needed over 15% to ride properly.

 

[ksroskel]

So finally had the opportunity to hitch up and run across the CAT scales.

Truck specs:
'21 Oxford White, 302a XLT PB 7.2kw 157, 4x4, Max Tow, Tow mirrors, 360* camera, Sport package, 20" Sport wheels, Co-Pilot360 assist 2.0, Interior work surface, Power adjustable pedals, 8 Sp B&O, Onboard scales, Tailgate step/work surface, Box link, Wheel well liners. Factory Payload 1523 lbs.
Added: LINE-X Premium. XPEL PRIME XR tint. WeatherTech HP mats. Rugged Ridge shackle isolators. Sporthfish rear seat release. Geolandar G015 LT285/60r20.

TT factory specs:
Grand Design Imagine 2250rk, UVW 5546 lbs, Hitch Weight 515 lbs, GVWR 7495 lbs, Length 27' 11", Height 11' 0", Axle Rating 3500

The chains were able to reach and connect to the hitch when straight, but they were too tight for my comfort for turns. So I used some shackles to provide a little more reach. Plus, a little more red on this truck never hurts

Before hitching, the front fender was 38 1/4 and the rear was 41 1/8
After WD hitching, the front fender was 38 1/2 and the rear was 39 1/2

Using a 4' level on the bed rail, the truck was dead level. Using the level on the TT above the axles on the horizontal seam, the bubble was between the lines, but rear shifted slightly, which meant a very, very slight tongue lean.

The truck's Geolandar LT tires were only inflated to 50lbs and the TT tires (Goodyear Endurance Load D Max 65 lb) were between 60-65 lb.

I used the sway control on the Recurve R6 hitch and disabled the F150's electronic sway control.

It was pretty windy today and going about 60-65 mph, I felt some sway with truck passes or occasional large gusts. It felt more than when I've towed with an HD, but it wasn't that bad really. I'm thinking next time, air the truck up to 65 lbs.

According to the trip computer, the MPGs were 8.5 over the 30 or so miles from the storage unit to the scales and back. We used tow/haul mode.

The TT had almost all our gear in it. We gassed the truck to full. The only thing in the truck with us was a pancake air compressor. We normally also bring our clothes, cooler, and camping chairs, but didn't for this first measurement.

The scales measured 3500 on the steer, 3900 on the drive, and 5660 on the trailer axles.

I think since the powerboost has a 4150 rear GAWR, it means we can load up to another 250 lbs on the rear axle.

Open to any and all feedback, support, or criticism. Thanks!

Pics below. Enjoy

I suspect your GVWR is 7350 lbs with max tow package. Check you door sticker to verify. So at this point you already exceed the GVWR (3500 + 3900).

 

[LHoffmanjr22]

So finally had the opportunity to hitch up and run across the CAT scales.

Truck specs:
'21 Oxford White, 302a XLT PB 7.2kw 157, 4x4, Max Tow, Tow mirrors, 360* camera, Sport package, 20" Sport wheels, Co-Pilot360 assist 2.0, Interior work surface, Power adjustable pedals, 8 Sp B&O, Onboard scales, Tailgate step/work surface, Box link, Wheel well liners. Factory Payload 1523 lbs.
Added: LINE-X Premium. XPEL PRIME XR tint. WeatherTech HP mats. Rugged Ridge shackle isolators. Sporthfish rear seat release. Geolandar G015 LT285/60r20.

TT factory specs:
Grand Design Imagine 2250rk, UVW 5546 lbs, Hitch Weight 515 lbs, GVWR 7495 lbs, Length 27' 11", Height 11' 0", Axle Rating 3500

The chains were able to reach and connect to the hitch when straight, but they were too tight for my comfort for turns. So I used some shackles to provide a little more reach. Plus, a little more red on this truck never hurts

Before hitching, the front fender was 38 1/4 and the rear was 41 1/8
After WD hitching, the front fender was 38 1/2 and the rear was 39 1/2

Using a 4' level on the bed rail, the truck was dead level. Using the level on the TT above the axles on the horizontal seam, the bubble was between the lines, but rear shifted slightly, which meant a very, very slight tongue lean.

The truck's Geolandar LT tires were only inflated to 50lbs and the TT tires (Goodyear Endurance Load D Max 65 lb) were between 60-65 lb.

I used the sway control on the Recurve R6 hitch and disabled the F150's electronic sway control.

It was pretty windy today and going about 60-65 mph, I felt some sway with truck passes or occasional large gusts. It felt more than when I've towed with an HD, but it wasn't that bad really. I'm thinking next time, air the truck up to 65 lbs.

According to the trip computer, the MPGs were 8.5 over the 30 or so miles from the storage unit to the scales and back. We used tow/haul mode.

The TT had almost all our gear in it. We gassed the truck to full. The only thing in the truck with us was a pancake air compressor. We normally also bring our clothes, cooler, and camping chairs, but didn't for this first measurement.

The scales measured 3500 on the steer, 3900 on the drive, and 5660 on the trailer axles.

I think since the powerboost has a 4150 rear GAWR, it means we can load up to another 250 lbs on the rear axle.

Open to any and all feedback, support, or criticism. Thanks!

Pics below. Enjoy

The shackles on the hitch are such a great idea. I love everything about my truck except the design of the hitch. It's so hard to get the chains hooked and unhooked. This solves it all. Any links or info on what shackles you have on there?

 

[UGADawg96]

The shackles on the hitch are such a great idea. I love everything about my truck except the design of the hitch. It's so hard to get the chains hooked and unhooked. This solves it all. Any links or info on what shackles you have on there?

These are the ones I have as shown in the pics:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077N4VNS9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[LHoffmanjr22]

These are the ones I have as shown in the pics:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077N4VNS9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Thanks!