Bidirectional charging as a Tesla killer?

[world2steven]

With its Intelligent Power Backup and forthcoming just Intelligent Power, the way I see it Ford has a Tesla killer. The problem is not everyone can justify owning a pickup. It may take a few more years of killer grid failures before the public catches on to the benefits of bidirectional charging (bdc) but it shouldn't be much of a marketing challenge. In a post here or elsewhere I suggested using bdc on other Ford offerings to relieve the pressure on the demand for Lightnings. Someone commented that technically offering bdc on vehicles like the Mach E shouldn't be a challenge.

If that's correct and so long as Musk can block his Tesla engineers from offering bdc with its cars, would this not be a tremendous opportunity for Ford? Anyone who understands the urgent need for more storage for renewable energy and the threat of blackouts should be an easy sale. You don't even have to 'roll your own' renewable energy. Just save some from the grid for a rainy (or smoke-filled) day.

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[jpepper07]

I see tesla dieing or slowing down in otherwise. If they don't update their models or come out with new cars at scale.

Once people see Bidirectional charging requires $8k in equipment and labor they won't care much about it. So I think Bidirectional charging is a nice additional feature but it isn't as big of a deal because it's cost isn't worth the benefits.

 

[stimpy]

I don’t see this feature making much of a difference in the market for tesla. Personally, I’m not paying to install a home integration kit, so it doesn’t factor into my purchase decision.

 

[Amps]

As many of us have discovered when considering Intelligent Backup Power, 40 Amps of available power at on-board receptacles is probably the most intelligent backup power in our situations. Tesla could easily provide something similar, if the Boss lets them.

 

[world2steven]

Once people see Bidirectional charging requires $8k in equipment and labor they won't care much about it.

where does the $8k come in? You have a 240V output socket on the Lightning. How much would it cost to put it on every EV with a battery big enough to justify its inclusion?

 

[world2steven]

As many of us have discovered when considering Intelligent Backup Power, 40 Amps of available power at on-board receptacles is probably the most intelligent backup power in our situations. Tesla could easily provide something similar, if the Boss lets them.

Kind of obscene. The '(2nd?) richest man in the world refusing to allow let's just call it Intelligent Backup Power, not bidirectional charging so he can sell more hopefully for most of us useless Powerwalls?? And this in the face of an expected long-term shortage of resources for battery production. Then there is Tesla's grid-scale batteries that give the nation's electric utilities the excuse to postpone getting serious about gravity-based energy storage technology while they wait for products their utility commissions will given the permission to gouge their customers to defray the cost.

 

[world2steven]

Kind of obscene. The '(2nd?) richest man in the world refusing to allow let's just call it Intelligent Backup Power, not bidirectional charging so he can sell more hopefully for most of us useless Powerwalls?? And this in the face of an expected long-term shortage of resources for battery production. Then there is Tesla's grid-scale batteries that give the nation's electric utilities the excuse to postpone getting serious about gravity-based energy storage technology while they wait for products their utility commissions will given the permission to gouge their customers to defray the cost.

What really gets me is Musk posing as the 'green knight'.

 

[beatle]

where does the $8k come in? You have a 240V output socket on the Lightning. How much would it cost to put it on every EV with a battery big enough to justify its inclusion?

$8k may be a little high, but the HIS equipment alone is just under $3900. Installing a receptacle and transfer switch to make use of the 240v outlet on the truck may not be that much cheaper than the HIS installation depending on your location.

I certainly don't think the feature will "kill" Tesla or any other EV manufacturer. It's a neat feature and I'm glad the truck has it, but it's not that big of a deal, and not everyone will even want to or be able to take advantage of it.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I'm sure not sure why ANY battery-powered vehicle, even HYBRID plug-ins, don't have a simple 120v outlet to make use of the battery power in the event it's needed, whether for simple tailgating and camping options, or for those feared 'power outages'.... we don't NEED 240v power.

now, as to whether you, or most any 'average' owner, will ever really need a 'full' home backup source, or even a vehicle-to-vehicle charging capability, is much less likely. It's sure a convenience if it ever does come into play, but it's likelihood(probability) is much less certain. The cost may not justify it, but having it as an 'option' would be a likely positive offer. Even if you have a 12v outlet, with enough power, you can purchase a run a very inexpensive 'option': a power inverter.

 

[pstansel]

8k is not an overreaction... it might be too low. All in for HIS at my place I am looking at over 12k at Sunrun prices. Yes you can cut that down some but its expensive, it's gated by Sunrun currently, and it's overkill.

 

[Amps]

The best usage case for H.I.S. that I can see is residents of California that are subject to rotating supply/demand outages and Public Safety Power Shutoffs (PSPS) during wind and wildfire season(s). Lightning with Intelligent Backup Power will be a huge asset.

 

[sotek2345]

The best usage case for H.I.S. that I can see is residents of California that are subject to rotating supply/demand outages and Public Safety Power Shutoffs (PSPS) during wind and wildfire season(s). Lightning with Intelligent Backup Power will be a huge asset.

Texas in the winter as well

 

[F150ROD]

Nothing is a Tesla Killer.

 

[LightningShow]

Bi-directional power is virtually a non-factor IMO. It’s something that maybe 5% of people will use.

 

[world2steven]

8k is not an overreaction... it might be too low. All in for HIS at my place I am looking at over 12k at Sunrun prices. Yes you can cut that down some but its expensive, it's gated by Sunrun currently, and it's overkill.

Don't know what SunRun's costs are but they may be missing an opportunity if they are price gouging. Once you get the inverter and transfer switch out of the way it should be easy to sell PV. There are other ways to get 'intelligent power', e.g. Sol Ark or another good hybrid inverter, that may be less expensive than even the lowest price configuration of HIS. But once you have it, you effectively have 'net metering' forever.

However, if you are just looking at money (and how much would you pay for power in an extended outage?) it would be interesting for someone to run the numbers for what you could save arbitraging your consumption between peak and off-peak hours.

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