Sign our Petition to Make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. Standard

[PV2EV]

Interesting move here:

https://www.change.org/p/congress-t...ion&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_33923912_en-US:3

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[Pioneer74]

I guess those guys have never heard of BetaMax.

It doesn't matter how good your product is. The majority will win, and that is CCS/J1772.

 

[greenne]

Interesting move here:

https://www.change.org/p/congress-tesla-superchargers-and-plugs-should-be-the-u-s-standard-for-evs?utm_term=share_for_starters_page&inf_contact_key=2930b366758178ec2d8f7bd8f64183aa4dfbc39d7283b2cb89d5189540b69330&recruited_by_id=aa7f7db0-fca8-11ec-aece-5bacbeb52704&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&recruiter=1270552848&utm_source=share_petition&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_33923912_en-US:3

Lets see.. lets slow EV adoption to make multiple automakers change to conform to Tesla vs just making Tesla(one automaker) conform to everyone else. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense...NOT.

 

[theblunden]

Not to mention Tesla is skipped over during any EV conversions in Congress or the White House because government will government.

 

[greenne]

Not to mention Tesla is skipped over during any EV conversions in Congress or the White House because government will government.

Elon tends to have issues with regulatory or authority figures. Also people who won't tell him how great he thinks he is every 5min.....

 

[jpepper07]

Tesla is adopting CCS connectors in Europe and are likely to do so else where. Aren't the CCS/J1772 more future proof than the smaller tesla connector. This seems silly. I wont sign it.

 

[FlasherZ]

I concede that Combo/CCS is winning at this point - and so does Tesla. We're going to have to live with that stupid monstrosity. Time for a history lesson though, so we know how we got here:

In the beginning, the J1772 standard was created, and it was a standard looking for an application as very, very few EV's existed. The SAE mostly focused on the electric part, and as "everyone knows you don't power general vehicles using electricity", they didn't spend time on the industrial or usability design. The net result is that we ended up with a design-by-committee approach with a poor connector. The user must align the connector near-perfectly, and avoid twisting as the ring will break off and pins can bend. Just head to the St. Louis airport and look at the charge handles there, EVERY ONE of the J1772 connectors from three different manufacturers, has the surrounding alignment ring broken off from heavy use.

The Tesla connector is more compact, elegant, self-centering, and allows for alignment error of 15 degrees or greater, which is necessary for those with physical disabilities or poorer motor skills. For AC level 2 charging, it even used the same signaling as J1772 so the two would be compatible with appropriate adapters. Moreover, it achieved compact reuse for AC & DCFC charging unified in a single connector. The only thing missing from the Tesla connector? 3-phase charging that is required in Europe for more than 4 kW (which is why Europe ended up with the Mennekes connector, only slightly better than the J1772 connector because of its longer straight keying surface). It can even do 800V charging, when coupled with the appropriate wire insulation/cable.

So, enter Nissan and ChaDeMo... Nissan used J1772 for AC and ChaDeMo for DCFC, and was gaining significant adoption as well for both charge stations. Tesla even produced an adapter for it (that I use to this day).

It was then that the SAE saw the need to update the standards to include DCFC. But unfortunately, they were suffering from a bit too much of "not invented here" to consider the market as it sat. ChaDeMo (the majority DCFC standard back then) didn't support AC charging, so the SAE ruled that out as a base. And the SAE also made it a requirement to build upon the existing J1772 standard, which is why you have a J1772 plug with two extra pins stuck at the bottom. From a design standpoint, we have the "if all you have is a hammer..." point that led to most connectors looking like gas pump handles -- whether ChaDeMo, J1772, or Combo-CCS. And finally, you have that whole competition thing -- other companies hated that Tesla would have a head start and lobbied throughout the process to neuter first-mover advantage. SAE engineers were too proud of their poor J1772 legacy.

It is said that the porn industry is what allowed VHS to carry a win against a superior Betamax product. It seems that unfortunately, SAE engineers found the pornography stash in its pursuit of a charging connector standard.

 

[greenne]

Tesla is adopting CCS connectors in Europe and are likely to do so else where. Aren't the CCS/J1772 more future proof than the smaller tesla connector. This seems silly. I wont sign it.

If Tesla already uses CCS in Europe, think how much easier it would be for Tesla to make everything CCS vs the other way around? Silly survey...

 

[FlasherZ]

If Tesla already uses CCS in Europe, think how much easier it would be for Tesla to make everything CCS vs the other way around? Silly survey...

Technicality - they use "CCS combo 2" which is the Mennekes connector with extra DC pins down below... it's only "CCS" due to it being a "combination charging system" (AC + DCFC) and won't work with "CCS combo 1", the US version with J1772 + two pins.

Tesla was forced to use this connector by law in several countries, not because it made any sense.

 

[yed19]

Using Tesla IP connectors as an Industry standard does not compute. Its pretty simple that if Tesla (or Apple with Lightning connectors) wanted to make their IP the standard, that they would give SAE or the SDO and the industry the ownership and management of the IP and everyone would benefit. Except Tesla of course... Which is why it won't happen. Ford or Chevy or Cadillac or whomever does not want to pay Tesla a fee for every car it sells with a Tesla connector when there is a decent "free" alternative.

 

[jefro]

My petition is to sell GM to Tesla.
Second petition is to sell Ford to Tesla.

Then have Federal money for Rivian so they can sell their truck for $25K.

 

[Lightning.Dav]

In the beginning, the J1772 standard was created...

In the beginning? Not even close.

The move to get a widespread standard has been going on for decades, and as each new "standard" comes along, something else (sometimes better) replaces it.

Here's a brief discussion of Toyota, GM and Nissan attempting to create a standard, prior to J1772:
Charger Standards Converge

 

[FlasherZ]

In the beginning? Not even close.

I fast-forwarded to the creation of the "standard" by the standards body post-EV1. Everything else I said was spot-on.

 

[CoyoteJim]

Using Tesla IP connectors as an Industry standard does not compute. Its pretty simple that if Tesla (or Apple with Lightning connectors) wanted to make their IP the standard, that they would give SAE or the SDO and the industry the ownership and management of the IP and everyone would benefit. Except Tesla of course... Which is why it won't happen. Ford or Chevy or Cadillac or whomever does not want to pay Tesla a fee for every car it sells with a Tesla connector when there is a decent "free" alternative.

Actually I think Tesla has made their connector design essentially open source and will not "initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who uses it."

 

[bryan995]

The tesla plug is the superior design.

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