Sign our Petition to Make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. Standard

[Sam James]

Good reasoning for not accepting Tesla's patent-pledge at face-value.

If I were literally any other car manufacturer, I would be very much against getting in bed with Tesla. Aptera doesn't have much to lose, so why not suck up to Daddy Elon of the Unknown Quantity of Children? As an EV owner, CCS is fine and I'd rather not pay any indirect loyalties to Tesla that I can avoid. Just a no-thanks all around.

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[Sam James]

Actually I think Tesla has made their connector design essentially open source and will not "initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who uses it."

"If you show me yours, I'll show you mine" is their definition of opening patents. No thanks.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Technicality - they use "CCS combo 2" which is the Mennekes connector with extra DC pins down below... it's only "CCS" due to it being a "combination charging system" (AC + DCFC) and won't work with "CCS combo 1", the US version with J1772 + two pins.

Tesla was forced to use this connector by law in several countries, not because it made any sense.

Did any of that have to do with 3 phase voltage prevalence in Europe and 500v rating vs 1000 v for CCS?

 

[FlasherZ]

Did any of that have to do with 3 phase voltage prevalence in Europe and 500v rating vs 1000 v for CCS?

Yes, Europe had already mandated the type 2 by the time Tesla showed up. EU mandated type 2 plugs in January 2013, far before Model S began shipping to Europe. They adapted supercharging to work with this connector.

I'm sure that if Tesla weren't mandated to use the Mennekes connector (now known as type 2) in Europe, it's likely they would have expanded their design a bit - a slightly larger connector with the ease of use features that the US has (shape, self-centering / insertion correction, etc.) to support 3-phase. The type 2 connector isn't a particularly bad one, but it's not as elegant.

As for voltage, I was told by the early Tesla engineers who designed the charging for Model S that the connector is capable of handling 800V battery voltage without too much adaptation required. The primary element is the insulation required for the higher voltage in cabling and in the handle construction, but I was told the connector design was easily capable of handling higher voltages.

I look at the J1772 connector and CCS type 1's and am saddened by the design travesty that it became - someone said "let's make it look like a gas pump" and thought it was a good idea. It is the standard, though, and I don't think there's turning back until we see a significant change in tech (back to induction coupling, higher voltage batteries, super-high current charging, etc.).

It is what it is.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Yes, Europe had already mandated the type 2 by the time Tesla showed up. EU mandated type 2 plugs in January 2013, far before Model S began shipping to Europe. They adapted supercharging to work with this connector.

I'm sure that if Tesla weren't mandated to use the Mennekes connector (now known as type 2) in Europe, it's likely they would have expanded their design a bit - a slightly larger connector with the ease of use features that the US has (shape, self-centering / insertion correction, etc.) to support 3-phase. The type 2 connector isn't a particularly bad one, but it's not as elegant.

As for voltage, I was told by the early Tesla engineers who designed the charging for Model S that the connector is capable of handling 800V battery voltage without too much adaptation required. The primary element is the insulation required for the higher voltage in cabling and in the handle construction, but I was told the connector design was easily capable of handling higher voltages.

I look at the J1772 connector and CCS type 1's and am saddened by the design travesty that it became - someone said "let's make it look like a gas pump" and thought it was a good idea. It is the standard, though, and I don't think there's turning back until we see a significant change in tech (back to induction coupling, higher voltage batteries, super-high current charging, etc.).

It is what it is.

It does look like a gas pump. .
I don’t anticipate any movement to a unitary design any time soon. Too many egos involved.

 

[Texas Dan]

Tesla could have advanced EV adoption by five years if they had tried to work with other manufacturers from the beginning to develop fast charging standard but instead snub everyone and made their own customers pay for the proprietary changing system whether they used it or not. Now that CCS is becoming the national standard, people like the guy that started this thread and started this petition want to force the Tesla standard on everyone else. Tesla needs to adopt the CCS standard and work to make that standard better and not be rewarded for the pain they caused.

 

[CoyoteJim]

I would love to be "forced" to use the Tesla plug standard. I use both on a daily basis and would gladly pay $1K or more if there was a way to swap my CCS port to a Tesla port (and have access to the Tesla supercharger network for both cars).

 

[FlasherZ]

Tesla could have advanced EV adoption by five years if they had tried to work with other manufacturers from the beginning to develop fast charging standard but instead snub everyone and made their own customers pay for the proprietary changing system whether they used it or not. Now that CCS is becoming the national standard, people like the guy that started this thread and started this petition want to force the Tesla standard on everyone else. Tesla needs to adopt the CCS standard and work to make that standard better and not be rewarded for the pain they caused.

This is quite the bit of revisionist history.

It was the SAE CCS group that didn't want to work with Tesla. Tesla had production superchargers opened to the public well before VW even demonstrated the first 50 kW CCS unit in 2013 in Europe, and it didn't come to the US until October of 2013 in San Diego.

As I covered above, the "standard" was an abomination, designed to shut out Tesla's progress and introduce a connector that was less usable and more expensive just because it looked like a gas pump handle.

But yes, it's the standard now, and Tesla has shrugged and is moving on, just because some people wanted it to look like a gas pump handle.

 

[p52Ranch]

I suspect until we get a mandated North American standard the public charging infrastructure will remain in shambles. I suppose the problem is the governmental agency that has jurisdiction over charging. Until congress mandates which governmental agency has that authority it won't happen. The DOT probably makes the most sense as the regulatory agency.

 

[Texas Dan]

This is quite the bit of revisionist history.

It was the SAE CCS group that didn't want to work with Tesla. Tesla had production superchargers opened to the public well before VW even demonstrated the first 50 kW CCS unit in 2013 in Europe, and it didn't come to the US until October of 2013 in San Diego.

As I covered above, the "standard" was an abomination, designed to shut out Tesla's progress and introduce a connector that was less usable and more expensive just because it looked like a gas pump handle.

But yes, it's the standard now, and Tesla has shrugged and is moving on, just because some people wanted it to look like a gas pump handle.

I have to say that yours is the revisionist history. Tesla wanted control, control of the charging network, control of the sales process and control of the vehicle maintenance. There is nothing altruistic about Tesla's efforts and they promised but never delivered on working with others.

 

[FlasherZ]

I have to say that yours is the revisionist history. Tesla wanted control, control of the charging network, control of the sales process and control of the vehicle maintenance. There is nothing altruistic about Tesla's efforts and they promised but never delivered on working with others.

Considering I was there, I'll keep my opinion and you can keep yours.

 

[jefro]

If the Tesla plug is superior when why are they broken all over the place also?

 

[MickeyAO]

If the Tesla plug is superior when why are they broken all over the place also?

Says the person that doesn't have a Tesla listed in their vehicles, and probably doesn't have real-world experience of using them. That must be what their one news source says about the supercharger network.

 

[FlasherZ]

If the Tesla plug is superior when why are they broken all over the place also?

Of probably 50 supercharging connectors used in the past year by me, I have experienced only 1 that had failed, and it wasn't due to the connector failing but rather the charger stack was limited to 60 kW in failsafe mode.

 

[jefro]

I can use Tesla destination chargers and it doesn't take a genius to look at plugshare for photos of damages at stations. See if you guys can use it.

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