Sign our Petition to Make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. Standard

[jefro]

I'm wrong. Tesla chargers have never broken and all those photos on plugshare are fake.

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[Theo1000]

I grabbed the pic of the EV1 charger off the web, not mine. I tried but couldn’t get one of the original EV1 chargers from a Saturn dealership in Tempe, AZ when it closed down in 2009, the dealership owner kept it for himself. I thought it would be a cool piece, like the old gas pumps of the EV era.

Towards the end, around 2007-2008, once the J1772 plug and Chaedomo had been announced, the manufacturer, yes singular manufacturer, abandoned the unit overnight. No parts no support nothing.

That GM Charger would have been easily been worth over $2,000 in back then prices just for the parts. I have no doubt it was parted out and sold off by your dealer. The crazy part was the GM and the Rav4 chargers were incompatible. But the parts, esp the circuit board were compatible. So one had to find a Magne charge unit then part it out and fix the Rav4 Toyota unit.
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I’m still puzzled over why these TSLA folks are all frothing at the mouth over the CCS plug. The plugs work just fine, it’s the heavy cables that I have problems with, but most new units come with suspended cables from high up so easy to swing and plug. Not had issues since.

One thing, TSLA folks should remember is that their plug has really not been put to open world test. Right now it is short ~ 12’ cable all on the rear end and all for exactly one manufacturer. Reminds me of Nissan Chaedomo. If they switch to a longer, heavier cable, with plug in further from the station how will it work. Also right now TSLA is well funded so money is flooding in to fix broken equipment ASAP. What happens when TSLA no longer has a blank cheque, that day is coming. And no this time it is not different, Capitalism works only one way. Red in tooth and claw.

 

[FlasherZ]

I’m still puzzled over why these TSLA folks are all frothing at the mouth over the CCS plug. The plugs work just fine, it’s the heavy cables that I have problems with, but most new units come with suspended cables from high up so easy to swing and plug. Not had issues since.

One thing, TSLA folks should remember is that their plug has really not been put to open world test. Right now it is short ~ 12’ cable all on the rear end and all for exactly one manufacturer. Reminds me of Nissan Chaedomo. If they switch to a longer, heavier cable, with plug in further from the station how will it work. Also right now TSLA is well funded so money is flooding in to fix broken equipment ASAP. What happens when TSLA no longer has a blank cheque, that day is coming. And no this time it is not different, Capitalism works only one way. Red in tooth and claw.

Nobody is "frothing at the mouth" except those who keep saying Tesla folks are bringing this up, calling it a cult, etc. Read through the thread again.

And then re-read the history of the connectors. CCS is a standard only because the SAE engineers got a bit too proud of their creation, which was made in another era, before any significant presence of EV's. Tesla offered a connector that was being adopted at a fast rate, but the SAE rejected it because it didn't work with their earlier creation. I've used J1772, I've used IEC type 2, I've used CCS, I've used ChaDeMo, and I've studied the inductive paddle connectors. I was there during the standards-setting processes and am intimately familiar with the decisions made, including WHY they moved from induction to conduction in the first place.

Those are the incontrovertible facts and no amount of anti-Elon or pro-Elon talk is going to change them - why you keep bringing it up is a crazy mystery, almost as if you were one of the engineers who designed the connector. I'm not a shill for Tesla. They've done a lot wrong, and I've traded my Model S for the Lightning. But they've also done a lot right.

So can we dispense with all the anti-Tesla BS and move on? Or do we still need hundreds more posts by the rest of the anti-Tesla crowd here?

I've already accepted that CCS is here to stay, for better or worse, along with the downsides and upside. It's clear that CCS stations need a LOT more maintenance than they're currently getting, or the public will use it to declare EV adoption a complete failure. We *need* CCS maintenance to be at the level of Tesla's. Well over 95% of Tesla's SC bollards are working at any given time. That number for EA and other CCS chargers is about 70% or less. We need that 70% to be 95%.

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

I guess those guys have never heard of BetaMax.

It doesn't matter how good your product is. The majority will win, and that is CCS/J1772.

Love your BetaMax analogy!! So true.

 

[Lime Green]

Tesla is adopting CCS connectors in Europe and are likely to do so else where. Aren't the CCS/J1772 more future proof than the smaller tesla connector. This seems silly. I wont sign it.

Tesla already has combo ports on the European and Korean cars that support both CCS and Tesla connectors. I believe China cars now too.

Tesla's connector was freely licensable but the auto industry didn't go for it since most manufacturers didn't want to jump on one automaker's tech and opted for the independent standard. That's really all there was to it. The Tesla connector itself is great and robust. In some ways it's superior to CCS/J1772 as it can handle both level-2 AC charging as well as DC fast charging over the same connectors. J1772 is level-2 only and CCS adds the separate DC fast charge pins to the J1772 connector (in the USA and related markets). In the EU they have CCS-2 which supports 240V 3-phase via a different connector (Mennekes Type 2) in addition to the CCS DC pins.

As for this petition, it really doesn't serve much purpose. Tesla isn't pushing for it and adapters are no big deal. Looks like Tesla's V4 chargers in the North American market will have CCS support so, whatever... I don't think the Tesla connector or CCS/J1772 are the final solution here. Better to let the market progress without restriction for the time being and see what comes of it, IMO.

 

[jpepper07]

Tesla already has combo ports on the European and Korean cars that support both CCS and Tesla connectors. I believe China cars now too.

Tesla's connector was freely licensable but the auto industry didn't go for it since most manufacturers didn't want to jump on one automaker's tech and opted for the independent standard. That's really all there was to it. The Tesla connector itself is great and robust. In some ways it's superior to CCS/J1772 as it can handle both level-2 AC charging as well as DC fast charging over the same connectors. J1772 is level-2 only and CCS adds the separate DC fast charge pins to the J1772 connector (in the USA and related markets). In the EU they have CCS-2 which supports 240V 3-phase via a different connector (Mennekes Type 2) in addition to the CCS DC pins.

As for this petition, it really doesn't serve much purpose. Tesla isn't pushing for it and adapters are no big deal. Looks like Tesla's V4 chargers in the North American market will have CCS support so, whatever... I don't think the Tesla connector or CCS/J1772 are the final solution here. Better to let the market progress without restriction for the time being and see what comes of it, IMO.

Completely agree. There will be other connectors in the future. I believe there should be standards and the auto industry is at fault for snubbing tesla connectors early on.

 

[Theo1000]

So can we dispense with all the anti-Tesla BS and move on? Or do we still need hundreds more posts by the rest of the anti-Tesla crowd here?

That's, a little starchy considering the title of this thread. I'm not anti TSLA, I'm anti-BS.

Stopping posting TSLA BS and we will stop thumbing our noses at it. I think it is a horribly run company and is actually delaying the move to EV's. Witness the chaos of this thread, a Ford forum no less. TSLA exists on the whim of a big air head who believes he invented electric cars and also believes he has a veto.

WRT to your weird posts on SAE, It only bears a vague resemblance to reality. My recollection is very different but I feel no urge to constantly regurgitate claims about TSLA this or that. I have not chosen to challenge your point of view but it is mostly incorrect.

You will get called out for posting TSLA BS on a Ford forum. Same as your would for posting BMW BS or Audi BS. To be honest you are one of the more reasonable TSLA folks. A lot better than the one who claimed Musk built cars for the masses....

 

[jefro]

I bought almost $100K worth of TSLA stock so don't call me a Tesla hater.

 

[beatle]

Just so you guys know, Tesla is spelled with an "e" in it, and only the T is capitalized.









(Yes, I know TSLA is a stock symbol. Not sure how the stock symbol is relevant here. Nobody refers to Ford Motor Company as "F").

 

[jefro]

I bought IBM and they refer to it as IBM also. Confusing isn't it?

 

[PrivateJoker]

Lets see.. lets slow EV adoption to make multiple automakers change to conform to Tesla vs just making Tesla(one automaker) conform to everyone else. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense...NOT.

I think the majority of working chargers are Tesla, and not CCS.

 

[astricklin]

I guess those guys have never heard of BetaMax.

It doesn't matter how good your product is. The majority will win, and that is CCS/J1772.

If they use it for porn it will win

 

[Commodore]

As of today, the argument is moot.

Next year Ford has access to EA. CCS and all Tesla superchargers.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Continue the conversation here:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...er-space-conversation-today-at-5-30-et.15585/

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