14-50 vs Charge Station Pro - charge rate difference?

[xycarp]

I’ve got a Lariate ER on order that will come with the charge station pro. My electrical panel has limited space. I’m trying to decide if I should just install a 14-50 plug now, or wait for my charge station pro to come in and upgrade my service.

What’s the difference if effectiveness and charge rate when using the mobile charger on a 50amp NEMA 14-50 vs the charge station pro on an 80 amp circuit?

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[FlasherZ]

The mobile connector charges at 30A. This can take close to 14-16 hours from completely empty. As long as you're not needing to use the entire truck's range every day, or you aren't going to be in a rush to get it charged during cheaper time-of-use electrical rates, you'll probably be ok with the 14-50.

That's what it really comes down to - how much do you drive and how fast do you need to have it charged back up again?

 

[Pioneer74]

30A x 240v = 7.2kw

80A x 240 = 19.2kw

You are going to be charging a 131kw hour battery.

How fast do you need to charge it will determine which works best for you.

 

[DarkAirforce]

Also don't bet on having your charge station pro before your truck, so have something as a back up either way.

 

[O’Majestic1’slightnigF150]

Most over the counter chargers are 16-40 amps “plugged” into a 14-50. Hardwired you can get close to 50 but then you loose the flexibility of unplugging and taking the charger with you.

 

[Firestop]

…..and, don’t count on being able to charge at 80A until Siemens & Ford figuire out the overheating issue….

 

[metroshot]

SInce you are getting the 80A charger, have your electrician wire for 100A service, temporarily install a 14-50 outlet for the travel charger and 40A breakers.

When you get the 80A charger, have the electrician remove the outlet and breakers, hardwire the 80A and have the electrician put in 100A breakers.

 

[beatle]

Keep in mind if you go with a 14-50 and follow code, you'll need to run 3 conductors and install a GFI breaker. If you install the CSP, you only need two conductor and no GFI breaker is needed. It is also not the best idea to plug/unplug things from a 14-50 on a regular basis if you are planning to take the mobile connector with you each time you leave, though if this is temporary it should not be a big deal.

Speaking of temporary, in the meantime you could wire in a 14-50 with no neutral and just run a regular 50A breaker. I know of at least one person who has done this...

Depending on what plans you have for the truck before your CSP arrives though, I would just suck it up and use DCFC or even a 120v outlet in the meantime.

To answer the OP's original question, I'll quote myself from an earlier post. I did some napkin math about charge rates @ 240v and how quickly each one fills your battery:

Here is the max you can put into the 131kwh ER truck in a 5 (10) hour window given different charge rates and a 91% charge efficiency (rounding differences show some numbers are not doubled for 10 hour windows):​

​

16A = 13% (27%)​

24A = 20% (40%)​

32A = 27% (53%)​

40A = 33% (67%)​

48A = 40% (80%)​

64A = 53% (full)​

80A = 67% (full)​

​

 

[Maquis]

…..and, don’t count on being able to charge at 80A until Siemens & Ford figuire out the overheating issue….

Many people are having the same issue with the FMC, so there’s no guarantee you’ll be able to get 30A from it, either. Especially in high ambient temps.

 

[Amps]

wait for my charge station pro to come in and upgrade my service.

Do you mean that you are going to have to have a new service panel and/or utility upgrade?

If so, and you can currently install a 50A circuit for the 14-50, how much do you have left with existing service between a 50A and 100A circuit? I'd use the Post #7 @metroshot method and de-rate the Charge Station Pro to the appropriate charge level and breaker when it arrives.

 

[luebri]

For those planning to wire Charge station pro are you...

a) having the electrician come in and do prep work so that when the charger comes in there is minimal work to finish it up with a 2nd trip?

or

b) are you just waiting until you get the Charge Station Pro comes in and then having him do it all in 1 trip?

 

[FlasherZ]

Keep in mind if you go with a 14-50 and follow code, you'll need to run 3 conductors and install a GFI breaker. If you install the CSP, you only need two conductor and no GFI breaker is needed. It is also not the best idea to plug/unplug things from a 14-50 on a regular basis if you are planning to take the mobile connector with you each time you leave, though if this is temporary it should not be a big deal.

Not to go too hard on the semantics, but 14-50 requires 4 conductors - 2 ungrounded ("hot"), 1 grounded ("neutral"), and 1 equiment grounding ("ground"). I don't want anyone to get the impression they should install a 14-50 without a neutral, which is one of the bad recommendations that pops up constantly in some forums.

Speaking of temporary, in the meantime you could wire in a 14-50 with no neutral and just run a regular 50A breaker. I know of at least one person who has done this...

Mark that sucker 6 ways from Sunday "FOR EV CHARGING ONLY - NO NEUTRAL - WILL DESTROY OTHER EQUIPMENT". If you plug an RV or a stove into it which requires some 120V, it's bad news.

A good electrician will refuse to do that for you. I'm looking at YOU, cost-cutting homeowners. And don't use ground as a neutral at the receptacle either, bad things can happen there, too.

To answer the OP's original question, I'll quote myself from an earlier post. I did some napkin math about charge rates @ 240v and how quickly each one fills your battery:

Here is the max you can put into the 131kwh ER truck in a 5 (10) hour window given different charge rates and a 91% charge efficiency (rounding differences show some numbers are not doubled for 10 hour windows):​

​

16A = 13% (27%)​

24A = 20% (40%)​

32A = 27% (53%)​

40A = 33% (67%)​

48A = 40% (80%)​

64A = 53% (full)​

80A = 67% (full)​

​

​

Excellent information. I'm hoping my home being at 248V will help too.

 

[Pioneer74]

1 grounded ("neutral")

The neutral is actually considered "bonded", not grounded.

A ground conductor is termed as a non current carrying conductor. A neutral carries current.

 

[FlasherZ]

The neutral is actually considered "bonded", not grounded.

A ground conductor is termed as a non current carrying conductor. A neutral carries current.

The NEC uses the terms "ungrounded conductor" for hot, "grounded conductor" for neutral, and "equipment groundING conductor" for ground. I was using the NEC notation, although a lot of people confuse "grounded conductor" with ground, which they aren't.

It is true that the "equipment grounding conductor" (a/k/a "ground") is a "non-current-carrying conductor" for the purposes of the ampacity rules / conduit rules. It is also true (as you note) that the "grounded conductor" (a/k/a "neutral") is a "current-carrying conductor" for those purposes, except under certain conditions (for example, a multi-wire branch circuit uses 2 "hots" and a neutral, but the neutral only carries the difference of current in the two "hots", so you don't have to count the neutral in a MWBC as a current-carrying conductor).

In the NEC, bonding is simply defined as "connected to establish electrical continuity and conductivity" and is usually referenced in connection with equipment grounding, so there is always a fault current path to ground (to allow for OCPD's to work and to reduce shock effects). It also refers to the singular point at which neutral and earth ground (via the equipment grounding electrode) are interconnected.

 

[bryan995]

30A x 240v = 7.2kw

80A x 240v = 19.2kw

You are going to be charging a 131kw hour battery.

How fast do you need to charge it will determine which works best for you.

I think the sweet spot is 48A charging, on a 60A breaker.
Tesla wall connector +J-1772 adapter being the winning combination.
https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector
(then you will be all setup for your next tesla vehicle )

48A x 240v = 11.5kw

Most homes are incapable of adding a new 100A dedicated charging circuit to run the pro.

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