First DC charging on the Lightning - with drop-off @ 80%!

[beatle]

Are you saying that if I charge the way Fords recommends that they will see it and allow my Lightning better charging rates? How can they do that on a individual basis?

If it's anything like Tesla (I know, another Tesla comparison) then the truck keeps a record of how many kwh have been added via DCFC vs. L1/L2. It would be relatively simple to program in some logic to choose a lower charging curve once you have added a certain number of kwh via DCFC, or have the DCFC kwh used as the basis for a variable that determines your charging curve so the cut isn't so abrupt. I doubt Ford will do either though.

That's exactly what they did with the Mach-E, and I expect they'll be doing with the F-150. The question is - are Mach-E owners different from F-150L owners, and will F-150L owners "abuse" their vehicles more?

By "abuse" I mean do things that discourage, vs. encourage, battery longevity. Ford has made it clear that they take steps to ensure that at 8 years / 10,000 miles the vehicles have a minimum of 70% of original capacity.

If you watch the video, Darren Palmer hits on some of what they're watching.

I'd wager that those towing longer distances will "abuse" their battery more. They'll have to if they want to make it to their destination. Where Ford draws the line is anyone's guess though.

FWIW at 80k miles, approximately 10% of my Model S's energy has come from a DCFC. I don't plan on towing with the Lightning, but it does have higher range than my S, so I expect even less of my charging to be DCFC.

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[FlasherZ]

Very good info!

Where did you get this app ?

I had no idea 3.5% buffer was the difference between real/true SOC and displayed SOC!

This is Torque Pro, using the Mach-E PIDs and a Bluetooth OBD dongle:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...ing-information-data-in-torque-pro-app.11243/

And the buffer is on both ends: actual SOC is higher than the 0 percent shown at depletion, and at 100 percent, actual SOC is lower than displayed.

 

[RickLightning]

If it's anything like Tesla (I know, another Tesla comparison) then the truck keeps a record of how many kwh have been added via DCFC vs. L1/L2. It would be relatively simple to program in some logic to choose a lower charging curve once you have added a certain number of kwh via DCFC, or have the DCFC kwh used as the basis for a variable that determines your charging curve so the cut isn't so abrupt. I doubt Ford will do either though.



I'd wager that those towing longer distances will "abuse" their battery more. They'll have to if they want to make it to their destination. Where Ford draws the line is anyone's guess though.

FWIW at 80k miles, approximately 10% of my Model S's energy has come from a DCFC. I don't plan on towing with the Lightning, but it does have higher range than my S, so I expect even less of my charging to be DCFC.

Of course Ford knows the vehicle is towing, vs. not towing.

 

[LightningShow]

I've been getting up to 168 kW on the Signet EA chargers. I don't know what the pack voltage was at that point, but I suspect I was getting pretty close to the 500 amp CCS1 limit. Peak voltage is not going to get better on this generation given the limits of a 400 v system and CCS1 amperage ratings.

I suspect the curve will improve over time given the headroom engineered into the thermal management system. As it stands charging performance is better than I expected when it was announced.

If they can get it to hold 170kW for 15-20 minutes, or 10-70% (for example), that would be a huge win. Grabbing back >150mi in less than 30 minutes would make roadtripping much better.

 

[Amps]

It appears that HVAC for cooling during charging takes about 4 kW

Do you have Max Tow? Was cabin climate running? If I missed answers already, sorry.

 

[FlasherZ]

Do you have Max Tow? Was cabin climate running? If I missed answers already, sorry.

Yes and yes.

 

[LightningShow]

My Bolt only uses 1kW while using AC, so it makes sense that the Lightning would use about 4kW with multiple compressors and fans.

 

[Amps]

My Bolt only uses 1kW while using AC, so it makes sense that the Lightning would use about 4kW with multiple compressors and fans.

I still haven't seen any confirmation that the Max Tow compressor activates in anything other than when towing in Tow Mode. A lot of comments about how much fan action there is with Lightning DCFC could be a clue that it does. With ID.4 HVAC consumption at around 3kW, 4kW on a Lightning could mean it's mainly cabin climate, especially in this weather.

 

[LightningShow]

I still haven't seen any confirmation that the Max Tow compressor activates in anything other than when towing in Tow Mode. A lot of comments about how much fan action there is with Lightning DCFC could be a clue that it does. With ID.4 HVAC consumption at around 3kW, 4kW on a Lightning could mean it's mainly cabin climate, especially in this weather.

It’s tough to say precisely since the rounding error is so large at low power usage. 3kW could be 2501W and 4kW could be 4499W. My Bolt says 1kW even when the AC isn’t running (sometimes it will drop to 0.5kW, which is the only time it shows fractional kW). An AC compressor probably only uses 500-1000W while operating. So even 3 simultaneously running compressors is probably only around 2kW. I guess my assumption is that the second AC compressor in the cooling loop would switch on whenever there is a call for cooling. I don’t see a reason to add additional compressor controls just for towing.

 

[jefro]

With the existing battery chemistry they will never allow full rated DC to higher percentages. You simply can't squish the electrons in.

 

[FlasherZ]

With the existing battery chemistry they will never allow full rated DC to higher percentages. You simply can't squish the electrons in.

No one said anything about full rated DC.

The steep cliff at 80% and later 90% are excessive drop-offs, though.

 

[jefro]

Yes they did. What are you reading?

 

[beatle]

170kw is actually pretty good given the truck's

Yes they did. What are you reading?

I don't see anything related to "full rated DC" in this thread. It's only been mentioned that the charging rate abruptly drops in half when reaching 80%. This could be more of a taper, perhaps gradually dropping to 60kw by 90% or such. This would still allow relatively fast charging above 80%.

Besides, it's still easy to "squish electrons in" when you're only charging at 1C. I remember charging my lithium RC batteries at 1C for longevity. 1C is 131kw on the Lightning ER.

 

[FlasherZ]

Yes they did. What are you reading?

I searched for "full" and you're the first person to mention it in this thread, so... no they didn't.

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