Does anyone have Lightning cold weather preconditioning detail information?

[Maquis]

I only precondition when I’m going on a trip that requires me to maximize range.
Overall, preconditioning will use more energy than not preconditioning. How much more depends on several factors including external temps and how long your journey is. Remember that the energy usage shown in the truck does not include energy used during preconditioning.

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[TaxmanHog]

I'd like to see the HVAC plumbing schematics, specifically showing the flow of coolant from the electric heat coil to the cabin heater core etc.

I wonder if the next stop during cold weather is to the battery pack to slowly raise the pack temp with the residual heat, then finally the coolant comes back to the electric heat coil and repeats to the cabin heater core, and so on.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This morning with outside temps and cold garage was 37 degrees. Last night I scheduled a departure time of 8:10 am, the pre-conditioning session started at 7:29, by 7:30 the peak rate of energy consumption was 10,528 watts, but it quickly tapered to a slower pace.

The session ran continuously until I unplugged the truck at 8:15, though Ford Pass alerted me that the cabin was ready at 8:10, I'm not sure how much longer the session would run if I did not immediately go out, need to research the manual or test that concept. I wonder if the 3.168 kw draw rate continues at that pace after the truck is started and HVAC remain in auto mode.

Total energy consumed during that 46 minute session was 4.14 kWh, if this ran they same way off grid, 3.5% of my 90% ER SOC, dropping it to 86/87% . 4140 is about 7 miles at a MPK drive rate of 1.8

$1.14 was the cost to precondition for 46 minutes at $0.27 kWh

 

[TaxmanHog]

Friday, I will do a standalone departure event, with the SOC starting at 90% from tonight top off charge, looking to see what the startup SOC when we hit the road at ~8:15 am

 

[vandy1981]

I'd like to see the HVAC plumbing schematics, specifically showing the flow of coolant from the electric heat coil to the cabin heater core etc.

I wonder if the next stop during cold weather is to the battery pack to slowly raise the pack temp with the residual heat, then finally the coolant comes back to the electric heat coil and repeats to the cabin heater core, and so on.

This is the schematic for the mach e. I expect the standard towing Lightnings to have a similar configuration based on the Munro teardown.

The Max Tow package adds a second compressor that is dedicated to cooling the battery. Even then, the thermal energy is transferred between HVAC and battery loops probably through mixing of coolants

 

[hturnerfamily]

I think once you're moving, the battery is 'conditioning' itself, because, after all, heat is a byproduct of the battery being used to move the vehicle. When it comes to preconditioning the 'battery' before departing, it seems that this is more to allow the battery to come up to temperature to then give you a more 'correct' miles-to-empty reading, although even without preconditioning, this will level off and become more 'correct' as you drive.

Another detail is when running the eHeat: the vehicle might be 'assuming' that you are going to be using that heating system the whole trip, therefore the 'miles to empty' are going to reflect that usage, although you may only use for part of the trip, especially at the start.

I think that if you hop into your truck, without preconditioning, at freezing temps, and you take a 'full' 200 mile trip, non-stop, your battery is not going to care whether you conditioned it or not. And, in the end, likely the 'miles to empty' will be relatively the same as whether you did.
Of course, low outside temps are going to have some impact on 'range', but the preconditioning will likely not impact it in any real terms.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This is the schematic for the mach e. I expect the standard towing Lightnings to have a similar configuration based on the Munro teardown.

The Max Tow package adds a second compressor that is dedicated to cooling the battery. Even then, the thermal energy is transferred between HVAC and battery loops probably through mixing of coolants

Thanks for the memory refresh, I seen the video previously, this shows the system in warm weather mode, if the diverter 3 rotates 90 degrees counter clockwise (based on blue/pink colors of the bypass), the system is in cold weather mode.

So it looks as though the heating PTC unit could pass warm fluid as I described to the battery loop when the diverter valve (3) is commanding the need warm the battery, then the cooler fluid passes through pump 2, then the battery, then the proportioning valve 12, ignoring the chiller loop, back to the divert 3, then pump 6, PTC and heater core

 

[Firestop]

I'd like to see the HVAC plumbing schematics, specifically showing the flow of coolant from the electric heat coil to the cabin heater core etc.

I wonder if the next stop during cold weather is to the battery pack to slowly raise the pack temp with the residual heat, then finally the coolant comes back to the electric heat coil and repeats to the cabin heater core, and so on.

FWIW, I think I have found a way to monitor the Power used by the cabin “E Heat”. The attached screenshots of one of my CarScanner Dashboards were taken ~5 min. Into the final leg home during today’s errands that started at 0800 hrs.

Outside Temp: 41 degF
Interior Temp: Set @ 68 degF/Auto Low

The truck was warm, having been parked ~5 min. before departure following an ~20 min. highway drive.

I started this leg with cabin E-Heat ON….after ~5 min. into this drive I manually shut-off E-Heat and my Dashboard showed Zero Power being used by the Battery Coolant Heater

I manually turned E-Heat back on and Battery Coolant Heater began drawing ~4.5 kW. I repeated this a couple times with similar results, so I’m pretty confident of the ability to measure the the Power draw to heat the cabin.

Next test will have to wait for colder (below 20 degF) weather in January for some good preconditioning impacts….I expect this data will be similar to your results monitoring your FCSP……..

Now that I’ve got the right PID to ext tests will

 

[Lightning Rod]

FWIW, I think I have found a way to monitor the Power used by the cabin “E Heat”. The attached screenshots of one of my CarScanner Dashboards were taken ~5 min. Into the final leg home during today’s errands that started at 0800 hrs.

Outside Temp: 41 degF
Interior Temp: Set @ 68 degF/Auto Low

The truck was warm, having been parked ~5 min. before departure following an ~20 min. highway drive.

I started this leg with cabin E-Heat ON….after ~5 min. into this drive I manually shut-off E-Heat and my Dashboard showed Zero Power being used by the Battery Coolant Heater

I manually turned E-Heat back on and Battery Coolant Heater began drawing ~4.5 kW. I repeated this a couple times with similar results, so I’m pretty confident of the ability to measure the the Power draw to heat the cabin.

Next test will have to wait for colder (below 20 degF) weather in January for some good preconditioning impacts….I expect this data will be similar to your results monitoring your FCSP……..

Now that I’ve got the right PID to ext tests will

Is that the Ford Pass app?

Nice.

 

[RickLightning]

Is that the Ford Pass app?

Nice.

LMAO.

 

[RickLightning]

I think once you're moving, the battery is 'conditioning' itself, because, after all, heat is a byproduct of the battery being used to move the vehicle. When it comes to preconditioning the 'battery' before departing, it seems that this is more to allow the battery to come up to temperature to then give you a more 'correct' miles-to-empty reading, although even without preconditioning, this will level off and become more 'correct' as you drive.

Another detail is when running the eHeat: the vehicle might be 'assuming' that you are going to be using that heating system the whole trip, therefore the 'miles to empty' are going to reflect that usage, although you may only use for part of the trip, especially at the start.

I think that if you hop into your truck, without preconditioning, at freezing temps, and you take a 'full' 200 mile trip, non-stop, your battery is not going to care whether you conditioned it or not. And, in the end, likely the 'miles to empty' will be relatively the same as whether you did.
Of course, low outside temps are going to have some impact on 'range', but the preconditioning will likely not impact it in any real terms.

Much of your conjecture is wrong I believe.

As I've stated prior, while you're driving the battery will actually cool due to the cold temps, not warm. So, if you DC charge and the battery goes to say 95 degrees, as you drive it will drop to the 40s.

Preconditioning the battery with a departure time has nothing to do correcting the guess-o-meter, and everything to do with getting more range on that first leg of your trip.

Your range will change as you drive depending on many things, including the use of heat. So, if you turn on the heat and start using the battery to heat the car, you will see the range drop. If you then turn off the heat and drive, it will start going back up, or more correctly drop last fast. Exactly the same as if you drive at 80mph for a while, then slow to 65mph, you will get more range on the remaining drive.

So no, the hop in the truck without preconditioning will not get the same range as preconditioning. You will get more range by setting a departure time.

Scratching my head how that is unclear at this point.

 

[Lightning Rod]

LMAO.

What's so funny?

 

[TaxmanHog]

Friday, I will do a standalone departure event, with the SOC starting at 90% from tonight top off charge, looking to see what the startup SOC when we hit the road at ~8:15 am

Thursday evening I charged up and also reset the efficiency driver data to get back to an unrealistic range prediction of 276 miles at 90% SOC, I know this is going to drop back to winter expectations in a few days of non-hyper-miler driving. Truck was in the cold garage but unplugged.

2.34 MPK

Friday morning at about 34º my truck did not start the cabin conditioning phase until about 3 minutes prior to my scheduled departure time at 8:10, unlike yesterday when plugged in it started 40 minutes early to work on conditioning the battery. Note the range dropped 9 miles at same SOC, cold soaking adjustment is the likely reason.

2.26 MPK


Got in the truck around 8:15 so it had about 8 minutes of warming, the heat was on, cabin temp ok, steering wheel and both seats were warm. SOC dropped 1%, range dropped 3 miles.

We did our nearby errands and breakfast then headed home, a whopping 6 miles, heat on while driving, then when I parked at CVS & Walgreens, I used accessory mode only while the wife shopped for 15 or so minutes, SOC dropped 3% (3.93 kwh) and projected range at that point was 252. dropped 18 additional miles in addition to the 6 we actually drove, or 1.5 MPK, vs the original 2.34 MPK from last nights reset, or the morning cold soaked condition of

2.21 MPK
I won't trust these ranges for a few days until the real numbers settle in.

Conclusion at the moment is as several experienced posters have said, full battery preconditioning is not happening while unplugged, only cabin heating/seat/steering is occurring.

 

[RickLightning]

What's so funny?

You didn't honestly think that display was from FordPass, did you?

 

[RickLightning]

Thursday evening I charged up and also reset the efficiency driver data to get back to an unrealistic range prediction of 276 miles at 90% SOC, I know this is going to drop back to winter expectations in a few days of non-hyper-miler driving. Truck was in the cold garage but unplugged.

2.34 MPK

Friday morning at about 34º my truck did not start the cabin conditioning phase until about 3 minutes prior to my scheduled departure time at 8:10, unlike yesterday when plugged in it started 40 minutes early to work on conditioning the battery. Note the range dropped 9 miles at same SOC, cold soaking adjustment is the likely reason.

2.26 MPK


Got in the truck around 8:15 so it had about 8 minutes of warming, the heat was on, cabin temp ok, steering wheel and both seats were warm. SOC dropped 1%, range dropped 3 miles.

We did our nearby errands and breakfast then headed home, a whopping 6, heat on while driving, then when I parked at CVS & Walgreens, I used accessory mode only while the wife shopped for 15 or so minutes, SOC dropped 3% (3.93 kwh) and projected range at that point was 252. dropped 18 additional miles in addition to the 6 we actually drove, or 1.5 MPK, vs the original 2.34 MPK from last nights reset, or the morning cold soaked condition of

2.21 MPK
I won't trust these ranges for a few days until the real numbers settle in.

Conclusion at the moment is as several experienced posters have said, full battery preconditioning is not happening while unplugged, only cabin heating/seat/steering is occurring.

Also keep in mind that the temperature that the vehicle senses may, or may not, reflect reality. Yes, it knows the temp of the battery, and it has access to weather data, but the temperature of the air around the vehicle may, or may not, be accurate.

On the Mach-E, the outdoor temp sensor requires driving to register accurate temperatures. I can go out right now and it may display 50 degrees, when it's 32 out. As I drive, it drops within a minute or 3. Or goes up, depends on the conditions.

If the GOM is using THAT temperature to project, that also adds some inaccuracy.