Truck Recommended Plugging in in Cold Weather

[ddbrooke]

I had an interesting and somewhat unexpected experience last night. Temps were about 8deg F. I had the truck plugged with the Ford mobile charger all day. I've set a departure time every day at 7am charged to 90% as per the recommendation of Darren Palmer on State of Charge.

All of that for background, I unplugged and drove about 5 miles to relatives for Christmas Eve at 4pm. When I got in the truck to return home at 10pm, the battery temp gauge was down to almost 1/4 and the available power was 86%. The battery gauge had always seemed to be right in the middle in the 2 months I've owned the truck.

From others experiences does this seem normal?

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[MBM]

I had an interesting and somewhat unexpected experience last night. Temps were about 8deg F. I had the truck plugged with the Ford mobile charger all day. I've set a departure time every day at 7am charged to 90% as per the recommendation of Darren Palmer on State of Charge.

All of that for background, I unplugged and drove about 5 miles to relatives for Christmas Eve at 4pm. When I got in the truck to return home at 10pm, the battery temp gauge was down to almost 1/4 and the available power was 86%. The battery gauge had always seemed to be right in the middle in the 2 months I've owned the truck.

From others experiences does this seem normal?

Completely normal with the cold snap we’re experiencing and those single digit temperatures.

 

[Tony Burgh]

I had an interesting and somewhat unexpected experience last night. Temps were about 8deg F. I had the truck plugged with the Ford mobile charger all day. I've set a departure time every day at 7am charged to 90% as per the recommendation of Darren Palmer on State of Charge.

All of that for background, I unplugged and drove about 5 miles to relatives for Christmas Eve at 4pm. When I got in the truck to return home at 10pm, the battery temp gauge was down to almost 1/4 and the available power was 86%. The battery gauge had always seemed to be right in the middle in the 2 months I've owned the truck.

From others experiences does this seem normal?

Hey, homie. Nice to see a local on here.

 

[Maxx]

The cold raises the resistance of the individual cells. Ohms Law comes into play with the relation of Voltage, Amps, and resistance.

Something I once again observed tonight as I was monitoring a cold test (-20C) during discharge, the voltage was rising as the cell was discharging due to the heat generated rising the cell temperature and reducing the resistance.

Li-ion cells like the same temperatures humans like. Outside of those temperatures adds stress to the cells, the same way it adds stress to the human body.

I am still not clear what does permanent damage to the battery and what just reduces performance short term. Could you please explain a bit more what does it mean battery does not like cold like humans? Can it die from hypothermia?

My understanding is added resistance means reduced current which means slower charging and reduction in available power. If that is all there is to it, I would never plug mine in when it is at 80% SOC (most of my drives are unplanned, infrequent and very short). I would not be stranded for reduction in range, and I can drive slower if the power is reduced.

However if going below certain temperature permanently damage the battery and reduce it’s capacity, and BMS does not protect the battery unless it is plugged in, then depending on what that temperature is and what the damage is, spending the extra energy to protect the battery may make sense.

Would you please explain if there are any conditions under which there will be permanent damage (at rest unplugged, charging or driving with cold battery)?

 

[MickeyAO]

I am still not clear what does permanent damage to the battery and what just reduces performance short term. Could you please explain a bit more what does it mean battery does not like cold like humans? Can it die from hypothermia?

My understanding is added resistance means reduced current which means slower charging and reduction in available power. If that is all there is to it, I would never plug mine in when it is at 80% SOC (most of my drives are unplanned, infrequent and very short). I would not be stranded for reduction in range, and I can drive slower if the power is reduced.

However if going below certain temperature permanently damage the battery and reduce it’s capacity, and BMS does not protect the battery unless it is plugged in, then depending on what that temperature is and what the damage is, spending the extra energy to protect the battery may make sense.

Would you please explain if there are any conditions under which there will be permanent damage (at rest unplugged, charging or driving with cold battery)?

The Battery Management System (BMS) is going to protect your battery from permanent damage. It will use power from the battery to protect itself if necessary (the reason you should use shore power). If the SOC gets too low and you try to drive, it will limit your available power. Driving it down too low in extreme conditions will be what causes the permanent damage.

The pack will do everything in its power (pun intended) to protect the battery from a warranty claim.
.

 

[rdr854]

The Battery Management System (BMS) is going to protect your battery from permanent damage. It will use power from the battery to protect itself if necessary (the reason you should use shore power). If the SOC gets too low and you try to drive, it will limit your available power. Driving it down too low in extreme conditions will be what causes the permanent damage.

The pack will do everything in its power (pun intended) to protect the battery from a warranty claim.
.

@MickeyAO -- So here is my question — It’s bone chilling cold around 10 degrees at night in the outer suburbs of Washington, DC. My truck was plugged into the Ford Charge Station Pro 24 hours ago and charged from 76% to 80% (It has remained plugged in even though it is no longer charging). When it finished charging last night, the Ford Pass App said it only used 11 kilowatts. What has happened since? Is my truck benefiting from being plugged in even though I do not see any electrical usage (meaning the app still says that I have only used 11 kilowatts of power). In this regard, I have not set a departure time since there was no plan to go anywhere.

 

[MickeyAO]

@MickeyAO -- So here is my question — It’s bone chilling cold around 10 degrees at night in the outer suburbs of Washington, DC. My truck was plugged into the Ford Charge Station Pro 24 hours ago and charged from 76% to 80% (It has remained plugged in even though it is no longer charging). When it finished charging last night, the Ford Pass App said it only used 11 kilowatts. What has happened since? Is my truck benefiting from being plugged in even though I do not see any electrical usage (meaning the app still says that I have only used 11 kilowatts of power). In this regard, I have not set a departure time since there was no plan to go anywhere.

It should be using shore power to maintain the temperature of the pack to the minimum levels, regardless if the FCSP is reporting it or not (and I've heard that it misses a lot of charging events).

Please note that I know a lot about batteries and cells, but we just started looking at the Lightning, and I'm not involved with the actual testing, but I do get to review the data.

 

[rdr854]

It should be using shore power to maintain the temperature of the pack to the minimum levels, regardless if the FCSP is reporting it or not (and I've heard that it misses a lot of charging events).

Please note that I know a lot about batteries and cells, but we just started looking at the Lightning, and I'm not involved with the actual testing, but I do get to review the data.

Thank you.

The app says it’s plugged in and the circle was blue when I last looked.

For Level 1 and Level 2 charging, should I be limiting the charging to 80% or can I go higher (such as to 90%) without damaging the battery? I keep getting conflicting information - where some at the dealer say 80% and others say 90 to 95% won’t hurt and that 100% is fine if going on a trip. I do know that for DC Fast charging, the limit is recommended to 80%.

 

[MickeyAO]

Thank you.

The app says it’s plugged in and the circle was blue when I last looked.

For Level 1 and Level 2 charging, should I be limiting the charging to 80% or can I go higher (such as to 90%) without damaging the battery? I keep getting conflicting information - where some at the dealer say 80% and others say 90 to 95% won’t hurt and that 100% is fine if going on a trip. I do know that for DC Fast charging, the limit is recommended to 80%.

Ford recommends 90%. I personally charge to 85% based on 11+ years of research cycling cells. My wife's Kia EV6 only does 10% increments and I just bumped her up to 90% for the winter...I'll bump her back down to 80% as the weather turns warmer.

Use this information as you wish.

 

[rdr854]

Ford recommends 90%. I personally charge to 85% based on 11+ years of research cycling cells. My wife's Kia EV6 only does 10% increments and I just bumped her up to 90% for the winter...I'll bump her back down to 80% as the weather turns warmer.

Use this information as you wish.

Thank you.

I am looking for an EV for my wife. Was looking at the MME, Polestar 2, Kia EV6 and it’s Hyundai sibling and possibly the Chevy Blazer and Volvo EX90 when those come out as a replacement for the S60. My frustration is that at least from what I have seen and/or read, most of these vehicles do not have a spare tire. I worry that we will get stranded if we have a flat that causes major damage to the tire and/or wheel (been there, done that and earned a trophy for it).

Any thoughts?

 

[MickeyAO]

Thank you.

I am looking for an EV for my wife. Was looking at the MME, Polestar 2, Kia EV6 and it’s Hyundai sibling and possibly the Chevy Blazer and Volvo EX90 when those come out as a replacement for the S60. My frustration is that at least from what I have seen and/or read, most of these vehicles do not have a spare tire. I worry that we will get stranded if we have a flat that causes major damage to the tire and/or wheel (been there, done that and earned a trophy for it).

Any thoughts?

It seems most new vehicles come with excellent roadside assistance. Personally, I have never worried about spare tires.

My wife's only requirement was a working sunroof (a surprisingly difficult requirement on EVs), so it was limited to Kia EV6 GT-Line or Bolt EUV...could not buy or even test drive a Bolt EUV.

Both of those vehicles met my requirements for a solid EV platform, including active cooling.

 

[chl]

Overnight temps down to 8°, garage might have been around 20, still no substantial energy draw through the middle of the night, my 7am charge kicked off ontime, but by the time we were ready to go it still needed more time to get to my temporary 95% requirement, I wanted it higher due to extreme weather situation and the potential emergency needs.

Storms passed by last evening we're in the clear, but just in case I resumed charging to get to 95%.

One thing I noticed with my 2012 Nissan Leaf that might apply to the Lightning - the 12 volt battery will deplete due to the charge timer if the car is not used for several weeks.

I went on an extended trip after I had purchased it. It was winter 2012. I was gone for about 6 weeks. The dealer salesperson said when I asked that plugging the charger in while I was away was what he recommended.

However, the battery never fell below the 80% charge point so the charger never kicked in.
I was able to check the state of charge etc. while away using the mobile connection that was provided via Nissan until a bout a week before I returned home.

After returning home when I got into the car to start it, it would not start.

The 12volt battery that powers the charging timer and communications equipment was dead.

Because the Leaf was in my garage pointed in, I had to buy an extra long 12 volt jumper cable to wake it up from my Ford Ranger.

The recommendation eventually came after a few of us had relayed the issue to Nissan to turn off the charge timer (or other timers) when storing for long periods of time or it will drain the 12volt battery.

Not mentioned but what I do now is put the 12volt battery on a trickle charger from any auto parts store to keep it topped off. Since the Leaf is in a garage that is easily done. I use a solar powered trickle charger on my Ranger - it kept the battery alive even when I didn't drive it anywhere for months during the pandemic lock downs, even in cold weather.

Some rodent however ate my fuel pump and tubes while the truck sat in the street. Now I spray Critter-ridder under there a couple times a month. Live in the suburbs with no rats around so I suspect the grey squirrels. But I digress.

If the 12 volt battery goes dead, the computer and all the other things needed to start the Leaf will not work.

I keep the Leaf in an unheated garage. I have never had any issues with hot or cold temperatures during storage here in Northern Virginia where the temps have gotten as low as 8 degrees F (this weekend) and as high as 100 F.

Both the high and low temperatures do affect the range guesstimate on the dashboard display however.

The Leaf does not have an active temperature control system on its battery system, it is air cooled. But I just use the Leaf for short trips anyway of no more than 50-60 miles round trip, so I have never gone below the 20% charge mark.

Bottom line, like an ICE vehicle, if not driven for a long time, the 12volt lead-acid battery will loose charge and the vehicle will need to be jumpered to get it going, if the Lightning is like the Leaf in that respect. With EV's the charge timer and the related telemetrics use up the 12 volt power faster than you might expect with an ICE vehicle.

It seemed to me the engineers might have thought about that and allowed the main Li battery pack to trickle charge the 12 volt battery, but I suppose it would have added a few bucks to the price.

Maybe it is different with a lightning?

 

[chl]

Precisely. Stop pretending to be some kind of expert telling people how to drive an EV you didn’t build.

Folks just drive the car how it fits your lifestyle. None of what MickeyAO or anyone else says on here matters. We’re beta testers. These cars need driven no different than any other car. Then and most importantly report the problems so the cars get better!!! Charge it when ever you want how you want.

Otherwise what will happen is what is happening to your cell phone. Controls on its use will be placed on your lifestyle. For example I just noticed a setting that was preventing my phone from charging - it was a setting to allow charging when the grid is producing more green power.

i have solar panels. I don’t need such a setting. Ao I turned it off. It was defaulted to on.

same thing will happen with EVs. The manufacturer. Your utility. Your EVSE. Anyone one of them will want to control how you use your EV leaving you with an inferior product that impacts your lifestyle.

it’s already happening. It must stop.

Demand better. Don’t listen to other people. Listen to you and your needs. Use the product to fit them. It’s been promised to do so.

80%. Plug in all the time. Put a blanket on it and tuck it in at night. Precondition. Charge at this time not that time. Etc. etc. etc. It’s a truck isn’t it?

Fords motto should be use it how ever you want. It will take it. We don’t care and our warranty is there to back you up. Further make servicing of the battery a 2 day job. Not an 8 week hassle. I don’t care how you build it to do so.

continue to baby this stuff - let people control how you use it - it will remain mediocre forever. It’s already happening.

That's how I fell about the pricing and limited supply of Pro's and XLT's.
Around here the Lariats are sitting on the lots with no takers at $80k.
Give me a truck - not a Rolls Royce with a bed @Ford Motor Company

I say use the Lightning like you would use any other truck, but also like you would use any EV.
As a Leaf driver for the last 11 years there are some differences one has to be aware of between an EV and an ICE.
But after a while you get used to them.
When I bought the Leaf, there were not a lot of public charging stations around.
But I found charging L2 at home was easy as pie anyway.
I didn't expect much range but the Leaf was for local driving and commuting, so that was fine.
The Leaf was air cooled so I wasn't going to use fast chargers either for risk of battery degradation.
Never had to service the battery.
There is a lot of labor involved in battery removal and replacement.
Because of the design which does not make battery removal and replacement easy.
Gee, most toy car makers solved that problem years ago.
There were no battery swap companies making quick and easy battery module changing when I bought the Leaf.
Well there still aren't but it is coming for what I am reading about the biggest EV market - China.

If @Ford Motor Company realizes people want an affordable EV truck, that is priced competitively with an ICE truck, will they channel Henry Ford ala the Model-T and mass produce one?
I wonder.

 

[chl]

It was 0F last night. My truck is in an unheated garage and plugged in. my estimated range dropped overnight by 15 miles, state of charge remained at 95%. The truck never pulled any power last night or all day today.

Word to the wise - unless you REALLY need the 95% charge state for range, Li batteries prefer to be more in the middle charge range, and longevity is better charged to 80% or below (but don't go below 10% for long).
Every battery type is different.
Lead Acid batteries prefer 100% charge for longevity.
Not so with Li batteries.
Not sure what Ford recommends.
I think they are saying 90% to prolong battery life unless you need the extra range.

Also one should let the battery cool down a couple hours before charging because heat will also shorten battery life, and charging creates heat.

Of course if you try to take a long distance trip, you can't do that, and you will want a fast DC charge, which creates the most heat.

You know that's another reason EV makers should go to a swappable modular battery system for on the road situations. They can swap out a battery in the same time it takes to fast charge and then charge the old battery at Level 2 and prolong the life, without the EV owner having to let the battery cool down and then charge it, no?

The Chinese (NIO for example) are ahead of the US EV makers on that one.
Can you hear me @Ford Motor Company?

 

[SilverBrewer]

The INL did a pretty interesting study on Leafs that show the range degradation between L2 and DC is not as bad as its made out to be ( DC Fast Charge Effects on Battery Life and Performance Study - 50,000 Mile Update (energy.gov) ) that said it would be interesting to see that done again on something that can really pull some juice. Anybody have any numbers from Tesla?

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