Ford Intelligent Backup - detailed review by State of Charge

[Grumpy2]

Thanks for this video, State of Charge is a fact filled source regarding charging that I have been subscribed to for some time.

I ordered the Lightning only because of the 10kw built in "generator", even with a SR battery, it will be the equal to a massive home power wall that you can drive around.

My lowest cost power is between 9pm and 6am as it is for many folks, so charging with the grid is best done during those hours. I need a new roof and I am thinking of getting solar panels at the same time.

Did you investigate a automatic transfer switch after your big solar inverter that would select either the grid or solar to recharge your Lightning?

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[tommolog]

My only gripe on this Tom was the comparison of functionality of a $1500 manual transfer switch to the HIS. I think a better comparison would be the Generator system that you had installed prior. My reason for this comparison was that I was in the market for a similar generator setup using Natural Gas and with the FBUP system, I now don't really see a reason for it anymore. It will backup my whole house (minus the AC), it starts up automatically, it will last for days., I don't have to run cords everywhere, etc... I was getting quotes on my house for ~$14K for a natural gas generator... So, if that's the comparison, then we are cheaper than that (especially if you install with a solar setup).

Other than that, this is an awesome video and from now on if someone has questions on it, I will just send them the link

That's fair and I agree with you on that. A permanently installed generator like I have with automatic start is more comparable. But my point was more about the fact that the Lightning already comes with a system that can get you through power outages, and you can access it for very little cost.
If the Lightning didn't have Pro Power Onboard, the IPB system would be much more attractive. IMO. Still, I do believe that many people will install IPB and love it.

 

[tommolog]

Thanks for this video, State of Charge is a fact filled source regarding charging that I have been subscribed to for some time.

I ordered the Lightning only because of the 10kw built in "generator", even with a SR battery, it will be the equal to a massive home power wall that you can drive around.

My lowest cost power is between 9pm and 6am as it is for many folks, so charging with the grid is best done during those hours. I need a new roof and I am thinking of getting solar panels at the same time.

Did you investigate a automatic transfer switch after your big solar inverter that would select either the grid or solar to recharge your Lightning?

I'm going to look into that. But as of now, I think the only way to accomplish what you want is to go to your service panel and manually shut off the main power in the morning and turn it back on at night.

 

[yed19]

That's fair and I agree with you on that. A permanently installed generator like I have with automatic start is more comparable. But my point was more about the fact that the Lightning already comes with a system that can get you through power outages, and you can access it for very little cost.
If the Lightning didn't have Pro Power Onboard, the IPB system would be much more attractive. IMO. Still, I do believe that many people will install IPB and love it.

Yep. We were one of those situations where convenience was important. The other comparable aspect to this is some neighbors of mine who, since they did not have a 131KW battery in a truck, installed battery panels in their solar installs. I find it amazing that the truck is equivalent of like 10 Powerwall+'s and I can drive it

 

[Zprime29]

If the Lightning didn't have Pro Power Onboard, the IPB system would be much more attractive. IMO. Still, I do believe that many people will install IPB and love it.

On that note, do you know if Ford has any plans to make the setup compatible with other Ford EV's like the Mach E?

 

[tommolog]

On that note, do you know if Ford has any plans to make the setup compatible with other Ford EV's like the Mach E?

Yes, I believe they are working on that. Eventually, it will be. I just don't know if the existing MMEs will have the capability or just the new ones.

 

[JC688]

How much amps can the HIS and lightning provide to the sub panel for home backup? Sunrun was supposed to come and review and provide load calculations this morning, they did not show up and didn’t even call.

 

[RickLightning]

My only gripe on this Tom was the comparison of functionality of a $1500 manual transfer switch to the HIS. I think a better comparison would be the Generator system that you had installed prior. My reason for this comparison was that I was in the market for a similar generator setup using Natural Gas and with the FBUP system, I now don't really see a reason for it anymore. It will backup my whole house (minus the AC), it starts up automatically, it will last for days., I don't have to run cords everywhere, etc... I was getting quotes on my house for ~$14K for a natural gas generator... So, if that's the comparison, then we are cheaper than that (especially if you install with a solar setup).

Other than that, this is an awesome video and from now on if someone has questions on it, I will just send them the link

The weakness of the Ford system as compared to a generator are notable. First, the truck must be at the house, charged, and plugged in. If you aren't home, it doesn't work. If you come home and then power goes out and you're pretty empty, it doesn't work. And if power is out by you, it's likely out at DC chargers.

For us a big negative was the vehicle being there. If we drove the truck on a trip, no protection.

The single biggest factor, as I see it, is the chance for a prolonged outage where you live, or for frequent outages. We've had 6 - 8 outages in the past year, living in a suburban area with underground wiring. 75% of the outages have hit the feeder lines to the neighborhood, a few were things like a transformer blowing up or a car hitting a pole. We finally got a whole house generator, 22kW (19 on natural gas). Should we get the Lightning at some point, I may examine the cost to incorporate it in a manual way, given we have the transfer switch, assuming compatibility (I know they isolated neutrals and grounds in the panel for the generator).

I applaud Ford for having this feature, and for people like Tom putting it in to let everyone learn from it. I think having V2G in the future makes sense in some places. But, for most people, this is way too expensive at this point for the value that it might provide.

Whole house generator tips:

- Look into buying the generator from Costco, and having it wired up by a dealer, vs. having them provide it. Costco sells the generator (Honeywell brand, Generac insides) for less than the dealers can buy it.

- If you go the Costco route, save $200 by picking it up yourself. My dealer said they would not take it out of the pickup, it had to be on the ground. Given it weighs so much, I rented a U-Haul trailer with a ramp for $25, Costco loaded it with a forklift, and I slid it out onto the garage floor to await installation (comes on a pallet). Saved another $175 by doing that.

- Generac had a special fall push to sell product, upgrading everyone to 10 years of full service. So if I simply do the required oil changes and filter changes, everything is covered. That's worth a lot.

 

[Zprime29]

Of course, for some people the biggest con for the big heavy generators is that they sit there and do nothing for 363 days every year. The odds that the power outage occurs when I'm coming home on an empty battery are so small that I'm willing to take that risk. When I add in the solar panels during the day, I'm using almost no battery. If I'm going to invest in a back up, I'd rather get more bang for my buck and drive it around for the 98% of the year that I don't need the back up.

 

[cwstnsko]

Problem with V2G is there aren't any utilities that have consumer-level programs ready yet, just small pilot programs. Wallbox has the Qusar 2 coming soon and I'm supposed to test one out in the spring.
Not sure 80-amp chargers will have a big uptake. Lucid and Porsche just released their own units, though and I plan to get those soon.

I loved the video, the complexity of your installation is very interesting, but probably not the most common setup, if there is such a thing

Have you seen any V2H/V2G targeted towards residential applications that support 800V EVs? I looked at the specs on the bidirectional DC system that Emporia is bringing to market soon and similar to the Ford/SunRun HIS, it is limited to 450V max DC input.

 

[Maquis]

How much amps can the HIS and lightning provide to the sub panel for home backup? Sunrun was supposed to come and review and provide load calculations this morning, they did not show up and didn’t even call.

9.6 KW, so 40A.

 

[tommolog]

How much amps can the HIS and lightning provide to the sub panel for home backup? Sunrun was supposed to come and review and provide load calculations this morning, they did not show up and didn’t even call.

While most of the literature says 40-amps, I think the actual max output from the HIS inverter is 37.5-amps.
Sorry to hear about Sunrun not showing.

 

[JC688]

Thank you both. I’m gonna call Qmerit. Sunrun sends me to delta and everyone i spoke to is just clueless. With around 40 amps, does that mean I cannot run a 50 amp air conditioning system?

 

[meow]

I’ve been interested in the HIS but that “it’ll take a minute or two to switch on” is a real turnoff. Thanks @tommolog for a great video; and for clarifying those kinds of points. I come from a world in which you’d have a battery system to cover the 15 second delay of a generator starting, so hearing it‘s the other way around is a pretty big turn-off!

 

[Maquis]

Thank you both. I’m gonna call Qmerit. Sunrun sends me to delta and everyone i spoke to is just clueless. With around 40 amps, does that mean I cannot run a 50 amp air conditioning system?

I doubt you have a 50A AC. The compressor unit will have 2 ratings, “minimum circuit ampacity” (MCA), and “maximum overcurrent protection” (MOCP). MOCP is the largest breaker rating allowed and probably where you’re getting 50A. You need to look at the MCA.
If it’s less than 35A, it will probably work, but you might need a special “soft start” module to limit the inrush current. Most HVAC technicians are familiar with this because the same limitations apply to marginally-sized standby generators.

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