Notice From Ford: Battery Replacement Needed

[chl]

So I wonder how many new owners are having battery problems?

Also wonder if it was a manufacturing problem, and environmental (heat/cold/etc) problem, too many fast charging cycles, or what?

My model year 2012 has an air-cooled battery, and some people living in Phoenis Az, where the weather is a lot like Egypt, had battery pack issues, rapid degradation, and Nissan had to settle a class action law suit on the issue. I never had any problem living in the Virginia Piedmont though.

It is good that Ford is taking care of it right away (it seems) under warranty.
Of course you have to hope they know what the problem really is and fix it correctly.
And that it never occurs again, i.e., it is not a 'lemon' that will never work properly.

Was it a 2022 or 2023 MY truck?

I read that "The 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning has eight recalls. That’s a bit higher than expected. The first issue involves inoperative windshield wipers that reduce visibility. Also, flicking parking lights may reduce visibility.
Improper airbag deployment increases the risk of shrapnel, and some of the wheel lug nuts may have been improperly tightened, causing the wheel to separate from the vehicle. Plus, the drive shaft may fracture, resulting in the loss of power.
Something is up with the steering wiring that may cause the wheel to turn in unintended directions, the trail brakes may fail, and there’s another driveshaft issue.
These problems seem to be related to electrical issues and manufacturing problems. The Lightning has racked up 95 complaints related to these issues."

But they said very few battery issues arose at least at the time.

Personally, I'd like to see EV's have modular batteries that could be entirely swapped out easily and quickly like what the Chinese company Nio is doing - no need for fast charging stations and the resulting down-side (fast charging decreases the lifetime of a battery):
---
NIO Power Swap
Fully-automatic battery swap in just a short coffee break.

Enabled by over 1,400 patented technologies, NIO Power Swap, the first of its kind, offers an ultimate and exclusive power service experience. It takes only 3 minutes* to swap a fully charged battery. Automatic battery and electric system checks are performed during each swap to keep both the vehicle and battery in the best shape.

Videos of the process at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnzvsquKNk5zpok-PzGRy7A/videos/videos
---

The is a company that has a pilot program (AMPLE with fleet vehicles in Ca) where they retrofit any of several EV's so they can utilize a swapping station:

---
Fastest to a
full charge.

Using modular battery swapping, Ample can deliver 100% charge to any EV in under 10 minutes. As battery density increases, Ample maintains the same delivery efficiency.
https://ample.com/
---

And some market analysts say there it could become a big thing in the US and world-wide:

---
EV Battery Swapping Market Players

Some prominent EV battery swapping companies covered in the industry are Amplify Mobility, BattSwap Inc., BYD Co. Ltd., ECHARGEUP, NIO Inc., Gogoro Inc., Kwang Yang Motor Co. Ltd. (KYMCO), Leo Motors Inc., Lithion Power Private Limited, Panasonic Corporation, SUN Mobility Private Limited, and Tesla Inc.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...Report-by-Acumen-Research-and-Consulting.html
---
Not sure why the have Tesla in there - Tesla decided against swapping at one point, but maybe they are still considering it?

Anyway, personally I'd much rather someone replace the whole battery at the dealership and then let someone else fiddle with the individual cells (or modules) inside the battery, a more specialized task.

Good luck!

Sponsored

 

[chl]

I did not receive an email but someone from Ford called and basically said that the are being proactive and they need to change high voltage modules to prevent future issues from happening, then the lady asked my preferred dealer and put me on hold and booked an appointment and said that Ford will be shipping the replacement parts.
I tried to ask more but did not get much.

Wow, so the mechanics at the dealership are going to futz around with the battery?!
Hope they've been trained well.
What could go wrong?

PS: see this thread about a Mock-E: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...y-failure-2-modules-need-to-be-replaced.7730/


"...So I got my car back on Friday (Aug 6) after 37days at the dealership with no loaner car, even after tons of calls and complaining to Ford Customer service.

It turns out the issue was one cell in one battery module was reading ~216mAh, they should be around 270mAh. They had to replace 2 full modules because the are on the cooling plates in pairs and they must be assembled in the factory. So due to 1 out of 36 cells in one module was bad, they had to replace 2 of the 12 battery modules/packs.

I got the car on Friday evening, and it was at ~80% charged. I drove about 80 miles Saturday, then it sat in my driveway till this morning (Monday) and I did not charge it. Went to leave for work this morning and BAM! Same faults! And in limp home / turtle mode..."

Now I am at the Dealership. The Tech just talked to the Ford Engineer, they told him it looks like one of the modules did not update fully and get up to the correct voltage. Even though a Ford Engineer was at the dealership when it was completed/fixed last time and was supposed to verify everything was set and updated correctly.

Ford Engineering is asking the Technician to use ”Expert Mode” in the battery update tool to get the voltages up in that one module. He is working on it now, but he has to drop the entire battery pack out of the car to do that...

The Dealership is working to get me a loaner right now as I sit in the waiting room....

 

[chl]

There is specialized equipment used to make sure all the modules in an Li battery are charged properly - I replaced the Lead-acid batteries in my old Ryobi lawn mower with 2 Lipo batteries, and bought a SkyRC iMAXB6 to keep them healthy.

There is a lot written about Li batteries, a lot of very technical (I'm an MSEE and an atty practice in Patents), but suffice it to say all the cells in a given battery need to be matched for electrical characteristics (resistance and current handling), and all the cells need to be charged to the same voltage within very small tolerances to avoid serious problems.

With good quality control, the cells can be matched and assembled very accurately.
The charging circuitry (computer and sensors essentially) on-board the vehicle needs to do it's job correctly to avoid damaging the battery. That circuitry is critical and has to be designed to be immune to external variables such as temperature and vibration, as well as any possible electrical issues.

The batteries themselves are also subject to the same external variables, especially vibration and temperature.

Manufacturing defects can also be an issue which is why quality control is so important at the manufacturer.

There are a myriad of internal to the battery issues that can go wrong as well.

The vehicle 'bricks' when even the slightest voltage variation is detected among the cells or modules to prevent a catastrophe (fire or explosion).

The heat stress due to repeated fast charging or fast charging when the battery temperature is too high can also result in internal battery damage and a resulting 'brick' of the vehicle.

That's one reason I have avoided fast charging my 2012 Leaf even though it has the capability.

Also Li batteries do not last as long if they are fully charged repeatedly, they prefer between 20 and 80 percent, some say around 50-60 is optimum. So I never fully charge my Leaf, and never go beyond 80%. Yes, my range is thus limited to maybe 60 miles, but I use it as a local vehicle anyway.

If over-current occurred during charging, damaging the battery, and causing a 'brick' condition, then likely something in the lightning failed to limit the charging to the required current tolerances.

If the cells were not charged 'evenly' then again it is most likely something in the lightning charging circuitry.

The trouble could be damage to the battery from some external variable like temperature or vibration or a combination thereof.

It could however be a manufacturing defect in the battery itself, bad cells or bad modules that occurred during manufacture that only showed up after repeated charging and discharging.

If it is the latter, then all lightning owners and potential owners should be wary.

 

[Priccijr]

Battery tear down

 

[chl]

There is specialized equipment used to make sure all the modules in an Li battery are charged properly - I replaced the Lead-acid batteries in my old Ryobi lawn mower with 2 Lipo batteries, and bought a SkyRC iMAXB6 to keep them healthy.

There is a lot written about Li batteries, a lot of very technical (I'm an MSEE and an atty practice in Patents), but suffice it to say all the cells in a given battery need to be matched for electrical characteristics (resistance and current handling), and all the cells need to be charged to the same voltage within very small tolerances to avoid serious problems.

With good quality control, the cells can be matched and assembled very accurately.
The charging circuitry (computer and sensors essentially) on-board the vehicle needs to do it's job correctly to avoid damaging the battery. That circuitry is critical and has to be designed to be immune to external variables such as temperature and vibration, as well as any possible electrical issues.

The batteries themselves are also subject to the same external variables, especially vibration and temperature.

Manufacturing defects can also be an issue which is why quality control is so important at the manufacturer.

There are a myriad of internal to the battery issues that can go wrong as well.

The vehicle 'bricks' when even the slightest voltage variation is detected among the cells or modules to prevent a catastrophe (fire or explosion).

The heat stress due to repeated fast charging or fast charging when the battery temperature is too high can also result in internal battery damage and a resulting 'brick' of the vehicle.

That's one reason I have avoided fast charging my 2012 Leaf even though it has the capability.

Also Li batteries do not last as long if they are fully charged repeatedly, they prefer between 20 and 80 percent, some say around 50-60 is optimum. So I never fully charge my Leaf, and never go beyond 80%. Yes, my range is thus limited to maybe 60 miles, but I use it as a local vehicle anyway.

If over-current occurred during charging, damaging the battery, and causing a 'brick' condition, then likely something in the lightning failed to limit the charging to the required current tolerances.

If the cells were not charged 'evenly' then again it is most likely something in the lightning charging circuitry.

The trouble could be damage to the battery from some external variable like temperature or vibration or a combination thereof.

It could however be a manufacturing defect in the battery itself, bad cells or bad modules that occurred during manufacture that only showed up after repeated charging and discharging.

If it is the latter, then all lightning owners and potential owners should be wary.

PS: Just to be clear, fast charging connects DC output from a station directly to the battery of the EV which is protected by an explosive fuse which disconnect the battery completely if trouble is detected (over current). However, the EV does communicate with the DC fast charging station to limit the DC current provided:

"When charging an electric vehicle with a DC fast charging station, the EV is constantly communicating to control how much power is drawn. Several variables determine the speed at which your EV is charged; however, the main variables we will focus on are the rate of charge of the charging station, the acceptance rate of the electric vehicle, and the DC fast charging curve."

See for example for more information on fast charging:
https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/when-and-how-use-dc-fast-charging
https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-dc-fast-charging/
https://www.purepower.com/blog/electric-vehicle-charging-systems

 

[chl]

Battery tear down

Interesting. I guess they learned their lesson for experience with the Mock-E...too bad about all the ads in the video..ugh!

Here's another lightning tear-down:

 

[ctuan13]

Wow, so the mechanics at the dealership are going to futz around with the battery?!
Hope they've been trained well.
What could go wrong?

PS: see this thread about a Mock-E: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...y-failure-2-modules-need-to-be-replaced.7730/


"...So I got my car back on Friday (Aug 6) after 37days at the dealership with no loaner car, even after tons of calls and complaining to Ford Customer service.

It turns out the issue was one cell in one battery module was reading ~216mAh, they should be around 270mAh. They had to replace 2 full modules because the are on the cooling plates in pairs and they must be assembled in the factory. So due to 1 out of 36 cells in one module was bad, they had to replace 2 of the 12 battery modules/packs.

I got the car on Friday evening, and it was at ~80% charged. I drove about 80 miles Saturday, then it sat in my driveway till this morning (Monday) and I did not charge it. Went to leave for work this morning and BAM! Same faults! And in limp home / turtle mode..."

Now I am at the Dealership. The Tech just talked to the Ford Engineer, they told him it looks like one of the modules did not update fully and get up to the correct voltage. Even though a Ford Engineer was at the dealership when it was completed/fixed last time and was supposed to verify everything was set and updated correctly.

Ford Engineering is asking the Technician to use ”Expert Mode” in the battery update tool to get the voltages up in that one module. He is working on it now, but he has to drop the entire battery pack out of the car to do that...

The Dealership is working to get me a loaner right now as I sit in the waiting room....

I can't even trust dealer techs to not break the 12V battery cover tabs by pulling towards them instead of pulling up like the arrow right on front of it says. So after they broke it once, I remove it myself and leave it in the backseat anytime I have no choice but to bring the truck in.

I can't imagine having to trust dealer techs to correctly diagnose, remove, disassemble and repair a lithium ion pack and its associated modules.

 

[Amps]

Was it a 2022 or 2023 MY truck?

For people receiving these calls or emails, it would also help to know build month from the B Pillar or the last five digits of the VIN. The last three of the VIN can be anonymized. Also, if it's ER or SR.

 

[JustaProGuy]

Got this email too, dealer scheduled and parts ordered, just trying to sort out loaner car situation. 2022 SR Pro

 

[MickeyAO]

So I wonder how many new owners are having battery problems?

Also wonder if it was a manufacturing problem, and environmental (heat/cold/etc) problem, too many fast charging cycles, or what?

My model year 2012 has an air-cooled battery, and some people living in Phoenis Az, where the weather is a lot like Egypt, had battery pack issues, rapid degradation, and Nissan had to settle a class action law suit on the issue. I never had any problem living in the Virginia Piedmont though.

It is good that Ford is taking care of it right away (it seems) under warranty.
Of course you have to hope they know what the problem really is and fix it correctly.
And that it never occurs again, i.e., it is not a 'lemon' that will never work properly.

Was it a 2022 or 2023 MY truck?

I read that "The 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning has eight recalls. That’s a bit higher than expected. The first issue involves inoperative windshield wipers that reduce visibility. Also, flicking parking lights may reduce visibility.
Improper airbag deployment increases the risk of shrapnel, and some of the wheel lug nuts may have been improperly tightened, causing the wheel to separate from the vehicle. Plus, the drive shaft may fracture, resulting in the loss of power.
Something is up with the steering wiring that may cause the wheel to turn in unintended directions, the trail brakes may fail, and there’s another driveshaft issue.
These problems seem to be related to electrical issues and manufacturing problems. The Lightning has racked up 95 complaints related to these issues."

But they said very few battery issues arose at least at the time.

Personally, I'd like to see EV's have modular batteries that could be entirely swapped out easily and quickly like what the Chinese company Nio is doing - no need for fast charging stations and the resulting down-side (fast charging decreases the lifetime of a battery):
---
NIO Power Swap
Fully-automatic battery swap in just a short coffee break.

Enabled by over 1,400 patented technologies, NIO Power Swap, the first of its kind, offers an ultimate and exclusive power service experience. It takes only 3 minutes* to swap a fully charged battery. Automatic battery and electric system checks are performed during each swap to keep both the vehicle and battery in the best shape.

Videos of the process at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnzvsquKNk5zpok-PzGRy7A/videos/videos
---

The is a company that has a pilot program (AMPLE with fleet vehicles in Ca) where they retrofit any of several EV's so they can utilize a swapping station:

---
Fastest to a
full charge.

Using modular battery swapping, Ample can deliver 100% charge to any EV in under 10 minutes. As battery density increases, Ample maintains the same delivery efficiency.
https://ample.com/
---

And some market analysts say there it could become a big thing in the US and world-wide:

---
EV Battery Swapping Market Players

Some prominent EV battery swapping companies covered in the industry are Amplify Mobility, BattSwap Inc., BYD Co. Ltd., ECHARGEUP, NIO Inc., Gogoro Inc., Kwang Yang Motor Co. Ltd. (KYMCO), Leo Motors Inc., Lithion Power Private Limited, Panasonic Corporation, SUN Mobility Private Limited, and Tesla Inc.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...Report-by-Acumen-Research-and-Consulting.html
---
Not sure why the have Tesla in there - Tesla decided against swapping at one point, but maybe they are still considering it?

Anyway, personally I'd much rather someone replace the whole battery at the dealership and then let someone else fiddle with the individual cells (or modules) inside the battery, a more specialized task.

Good luck!

Take a step back and think a couple of years down the road...are you really willing to give up your battery knowing how well you cared for it for one that you have no idea what the previous owner did to it?

 

[MichaelCA]

Just called again. First call got into the marketing department and she tried to transfer me but it it gave me the automated survey and hung up on me. Second time it got me an agent from EV marketing and she transfered me successful to somebody, she told asked for my CAS number and then said thanks and that she left a note for my designated rep to make to schedule a service and call me back. I hate automated prompts.

 

[Pioneer74]

Can the people getting these letters please post the approximate date your Lightning was produced?

 

[Priccijr]

Interesting. I guess they learned their lesson for experience with the Mock-E...too bad about all the ads in the video..ugh!

Here's another lightning tear-down:

YouTube ads? You need to get premium

 

[Avocadodude]

Battery tear down

I was just going to post this, glad I read the whole thread. The video helped me fully understand the battery make up during my module replacement.

 

[MichaelCA]

Can the people getting these letters please post the approximate date your Lightning was produced?

part of the 8/29 build week. 9/1 in production. officially built 9/19. im part of ur group i believe.

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