Farley discusses 2nd Gen F-150 Lightning (Project T3) + Teaser Silhouette

[chl]

...Tesla’s massive price cuts have put huge pressure on the industry to respond, and Ford answered with Mustang Mach-E price cuts. Farley believes the cuts are here to stay, and those who aren’t prepared may be doomed.

“We are going to see pricing pressure and if you have not put that in your business plan and you haven't designed second-cycle products with discounting included in your run rate to get to an 8% margin in our case, then it's not going to work out,” Farley said.

“That's why we put so much pressure even on the first-gen products, the Mustang [Mach-E] that is, that faces off of the model Y, we've reduced the price of the bill material by $5000,” Farley said. “We have to go deeper to face off with the Model Y and Tesla, and they're discounting; we knew we had to totally redesign the vehicle.”

...Henry Ford, the namesake of the facility here for Capital Markets day, wanted to build cars for everyone. Farley has a different path for the future.

“We don't want to do generic vehicles anymore,” he said. “We don't want to be all things to all people.”
—

Good luck with price competition while building heavy, complex vehicles for the elite instead of doing what the genius Henry Ford did in giving people what they want, need, AND can afford.

If the rule of thumb for buying a new vehicle from financial experts is capping auto payments and related expenses at 10%–15% of monthly income. So how many people are there who can responsibly buy an $80k Lightning?

If your take-home pay is $4,000 per month, then you should spend $400 to $600 on transportation, for example. The average yearly income in the U.S. is $58,600 as of 2023. So roughly $5,000/month BEFORE taxes rounding up - taxes are generally 20% in most states. Which means roughly a $47k take home pay. So $470-$700 would be what is recommended for transportation for the median family.

Even a $50,000 vehicle price with $10k down has a finance price out of reach for the average person with an average income (est. is that would be roughly $750/month at a 5% car loan rate for 5 year term depending on your state).

The first company to realize that there is a market for basic EV pickup trucks that are affordable by the average consumer will be the winner.

With cheaper LFP batteries, maintaining the price jump from $39.9k MSRP when announced, to $59.9k MSRP (and up) currently will be unjustified except from a gouging the consumer point of view.

EV prices are set to drop dramatically according to some analysts and not because of arbitrary price cuts, but because costs of production are set to drop because of various factors, including a drop in battery and manufacturing costs and the improving supply chain:

• Tesla claims it will cut manufacturing costs in its next models by 50%.
• GM’s electric Equinox SUV will come in around $30,000 this fall.
• VW and Fisker are launching new EVs that are 30% or more below average U.S. new-vehicle prices.
• The new cars will be comfortable, but somewhat bare-bones, according to analysts.

...The rise of the mass-market EV will be a milestone — environmentally, economically, financially and even politically. And as the Biden administration pushes changes that seek to aggressively remake the car market in favor of EVs more quickly than previously anticipated. ..

...At the No. 2 U.S. EV maker, Ford expects simple scale economies to improve EVs’ operating profit margins by 20 percentage points by 2026, according to a presentation to analysts on the company webcast on March 23. Another 25 points of margin will come from falling battery costs, and from redesigning vehicles so they can use smaller batteries, said Ford CFO John Lawler. ...


https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/16/the-25000-ev-is-coming-with-big-implications-for-car-buyers.html

Right now, pickup truck conversions are more affordable than new EV pickups, but of course the wait time to do the conversion is lengthy due to demand and a shortage of conversion facilities.

Somebody has a big opportunity here.

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[Pitbull2o08]

I thought he said T3 is a whole new truck. Not a second Gen Lightning

 

[Pitbull2o08]

my Lightning is my 8th f 150 truck. I have owned F150s since my first in 1981. I dont think I would be interested if the new generation (T3) doesn’t resemble in some way the typical F 150

It's not going to resemble the lightning. It'll be it's own truck, according to T3 announcement in Tennessee.

 

[Grumpy2]

GreenCareReports.com has information on the Millennium Falcon with a back porch (T3) combined, and the upcoming Gen 2 three-row SUV. "Our Gen 2 Products will be unlike anything customers have ever seen; that starts by not trying to be everything to everyone... it will be equally groundbreaking,"

The 2025 electric pickup will no longer be closely aligned with the F-150. "a technology tour de force that will transform the job site."

The description of "the 3 row family vehicle continues, 350 miles of range from 100 kwh battery pack that can cover 300 miles when cruising at 70 mph". It will NOT be a converted Expedition or Explorer. It will "all be about efficiency". We "squeezed every drop of propulsion system efficiency ... took a bunch of mass out ... lowered the right height, changed the aerodynamics. And the result is a different product."

I am encouraged with all these big changes,

First, the existing Lightning may be held by many folks as the best electric work truck with its boxy shape and heavy build;

Second, the generation 2 from Ford will push us all with vehicles that can remove combustion vehicles from most families.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Verge article that says long-driving ranges mean big batteries in big vehicles, which the Verge article argues is the wrong way to make EVs affordable to the masses and save the planet, etc., as big vehicles with big batteries degrade the planet in other ways.

Ford CEO came very close to saying the right thing about heavy EV batteries - The Verge

 

[DeluxeStang]

I thought he said T3 is a whole new truck. Not a second Gen Lightning

It can be both of those things. It's apparently a next gen lighting, but called Thunder instead. With styling like a futuristic '97-03 f-150.

 

[Maquis]

my Lightning is my 8th f 150 truck. I have owned F150s since my first in 1981. I dont think I would be interested if the new generation (T3) doesn’t resemble in some way the typical F 150

My first F-series was a 74. I’ve always owned one except for a 3 month stretch in 99. But my biggest complaint about my Lightning is that Ford tried too hard to keep it legacy. The boxy profile, the clunky shifter and door handles…..all unnecessary.
That said, I’m not a fan of the CT (or what I’ve seen of the Silverado, for that matter).
I understand why Ford did what they did, but I think T3 will be what the Lightning should have been. I hope it also checks your boxes!

 

[Pioneer74]

My first F-series was a 74. I’ve always owned one except for a 3 month stretch in 99. But my biggest complaint about my Lightning is that Ford tried too hard to keep it legacy. The boxy profile, the clunky shifter and door handles…..all unnecessary.
That said, I’m not a fan of the CT (or what I’ve seen of the Silverado, for that matter).
I understand why Ford did what they did, but I think T3 will be what the Lightning should have been. I hope it also checks your boxes!

I agree with the shifter, but I like the door handles. The thought of having to get an external 12V source to open my Mach-E in case the LVB dies makes me cringe.

 

[Zprime29]

I agree with the shifter, but I like the door handles. The thought of having to get an external 12V source to open my Mach-E in case the LVB dies makes me cringe.

There's no emergency manual release lever for the handles on the mach-e?

 

[sotek2345]

There's no emergency manual release lever for the handles on the mach-e?

There are no handles on the Mach-e. There is a button you press that pops out the door.

 

[sotek2345]

It can be both of those things. It's apparently a next gen lighting, but called Thunder instead. With styling like a futuristic '97-03 f-150.

Where is that info coming from - first I have heard of it.

If they name it the Thunder - I will have to get new custom plates!

 

[Pioneer74]

There's no emergency manual release lever for the handles on the mach-e?

No. There is an access port in the front bumper to provide 12V to the car to activate the electronic lock and plunger to pop the door open.

Other than the extremely low pack voltage, the lack of a door handle is probably the thing I dislike most about the Mach-E.

 

[Pioneer74]

Where is that info coming from - first I have heard of it.

If they name it the Thunder - I will have to get new custom plates!

I think he's being sarcastic. The next generation truck will be called Lightning.

 

[Pitbull2o08]

It can be both of those things. It's apparently a next gen lighting, but called Thunder instead. With styling like a futuristic '97-03 f-150.

Maybe, but I was under the impression a2nd gen lightning will exist alongside the T3. Meaning, they're two different models.

 

[Pioneer74]

Maybe, but I was under the impression a2nd gen lightning will exist alongside the T3. Meaning, they're two different models.

The current Lightning goes away when the next gen arrives. There will not be an electric truck based on the next generation ICE truck.

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