Help please. Do I have a battery problem?

[Hammick]

We've only had our '22 ER Lightning for about three weeks. Two days ago I got the call from Ford that they want to replace a battery module (23H01 program). However, they can't tell me if anything is wrong with our truck and said we can continue to drive it.

We are leaving in six days for a 3,000 mile trip to Montana and back. South Dakota or Wyoming is not a good place to break down, especially in an EV.

My dealer is going to scan our truck to see the individual cell voltages but can't do it until the day before we leave which leave us no time to figure out if we scrap the trip or take our Ioniq 5.

I hooked the lightning up to Forescan and at 66% SOC unplugged the pack voltage was 377 volts (truck on, AC on, stereo on). While fast charging to 90% the pack voltage was about 393 volts (truck on, AC on, stereo on).

Are these voltages low for a lightning? Looking to see what other have seen with Forescan or Car Scanner.

I'm going to see if Forescan will let me connect with the truck off.

Thanks for any help. Even though we love this truck our confidence taking it on this trip is shaken.

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[Hammick]

At 82% SOC with the vehicle off and unplugged the pack is at 389.52 volts according to Forsan. 96 cells x 4.035 vpc = 387.36 volts (I figured out the number of cells and the 4.035 vpc from the Ford dealer battery teardown video)

So I believe my pack voltage is normal. That still doesn't rule out any bad cells. I won't know for sure until my dealer scans my truck or I can figure out if there is an OBDII scan tool that will show individual cell voltages.

Really wish I could get an answer sooner rather than later.

 

[Heliian]

It's either a low cell in a pack or your truck has a battery module that may be from a suspect batch they want to preemptively replace. When they look at the cell voltages, they'll know.

 

[Hammick]

It's either a low cell in a pack or your truck has a battery module that may be from a suspect batch they want to preemptively replace. When they look at the cell voltages, they'll know.

Thanks. The Ford EV reps I have spoken with all told me my car is not showing any faults. So if my scan next Wednesday doesn't show any low cell voltages I'm probably fine to go on my trip and get the module replaced when I get back.

I ran into a very nice woman at the EA charger today in a 2022 Pro ER. She said her company has a fleet of 80 2022 Pro ERs and only one with battery problems. It got an entire new pack. So that gives me more confidence in our truck.

 

[mr.Magoo]

There's "sensors" for checking battery health and deviation of cells that would give you more info than overall pack voltage.
i forget what they're called but can dig through my notes in an hour or so.

 

[Hammick]

There's "sensors" for checking battery health and deviation of cells that would give you more info than overall pack voltage.
i forget what they're called but can dig through my notes in an hour or so.

Thanks. Are you talking about something in Forscan? If so, I'll take a closer look. Have an OBDII adapter coming today that should work with Car Scan which I thinks will show all the cells.

 

[RickLightning]

No, you cannot connect FORScan with the truck off.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Thanks. Are you talking about something in Forscan? If so, I'll take a closer look. Have an OBDII adapter coming today that should work with Car Scan which I thinks will show all the cells.

Yes and maybe
Forscan knows what Forscan knows, so if a PID isn't in it, it's not going to show (at least that's my understanding), but if thye're in there then Forscan will work perfectly fine and it's less guesswork than say CarScanner or TorquePro.

The sensors I'm talking about are under the Battery Energy Control Module, or BECM for short.
Module Address (if you're using CarScanner or Torque) is 7E4
The individual PIDs that might be of interest are:

PID	Signal Title	Range
4840	Minimum Battery Module Voltage	(0-20 V)
483f	Variation In Voltage Measurement Between Battery Modules	(0-5 V)
4841	Average Battery Module Voltage	(0-20 V)
483e	Variation in State of Charge Between Battery Modules	(0-100 %)
486e	Variation in Capacity Between Battery Modules	(0-500 Ah)
d703	Internal Module Fail Code	(0-1)

If anything is out of whack here, that would indicate that you have an issue.
For example if there's a big variation in SoC or capacity, or if there's a big discrepancy in minimum / average module voltage.
The fault code I'm not sure what it's for except that it's just a status bit, but the assumption would be that if it is "1" that there's an issue.

 

[Jim657]

I believe this is what they are worried about. This is a video on them, diagnosing and then replacing the one pack.

 

[Hammick]

Thanks guys. I have Car Scanner working and at 82% SOC (dash display) and not charging I was showing the following:

HVB average module voltage: 4.06v
HVB Minimum Module voltage: 3.97 v
HVB Voltage variation battery modules: .08v
HVB SOC Variation battery modules: 5.08%


I am currently charging to 100% and at 87% SOC (dash display) Car Scanner shows:

HVB average module voltage: 4.08v
HVB Minimum Module voltage: 4.04 v
HVB Voltage variation battery modules: .04v
HVB SOC Variation battery modules: 5.07%

I cannot figure out how to display individual cell voltages like I have seen on a Mach-e graph with Car Scanner. Would the Pro version show these or are they just not available for the lightning?

Can the dealer get individual cell voltages with FDRS through the OBDII port or do they have to have the pack removed to scan the cell voltages?

Just trying to determine if I am taking a great risk driving our truck on a 3k mile road trip (the call from Ford has me very concerned; really wish they would give me more info).

I cannot find the spec for module voltage variation that throws the P0B24 code.

It appears Car Scanner refers to cells as modules.

 

[NCMike]

Your in a tough spot for sure and no one can give you a definite answer either way. I got the same call on my seemingly flawless lightning back in February. My appointment was scheduled almost a month out due to estimated shipping of the parts needed and scheduling of a ford engineer to be there. I probably put another 1000 miles locally on my truck between the phone call and the service appointment. I never had any notifications from the truck or the ford app that I had a problem.

My gut feeling tells me your fine. My battery module was replaced 19,000 miles. As I said, those were 19,000 trouble free miles and I am now at 26,000 trouble free miles. I had 2 trips from NC to FL and a few 4 hour trips to the mountains of NC. Plenty of flawless DC fast charging before the module replacement.

I don't know if any of this information helps but I figured it can't hurt. Good luck in your decision and trip!

 

[Hammick]

Your in a tough spot for sure and no one can give you a definite answer either way. I got the same call on my seemingly flawless lightning back in February. My appointment was scheduled almost a month out due to estimated shipping of the parts needed and scheduling of a ford engineer to be there. I probably put another 1000 miles locally on my truck between the phone call and the service appointment. I never had any notifications from the truck or the ford app that I had a problem.

My gut feeling tells me your fine. My battery module was replaced 19,000 miles. As I said, those were 19,000 trouble free miles and I am now at 26,000 trouble free miles. I had 2 trips from NC to FL and a few 4 hour trips to the mountains of NC. Plenty of flawless DC fast charging before the module replacement.

I don't know if any of this information helps but I figured it can't hurt. Good luck in your decision and trip!

Thanks. I charged to 100% this afternoon. At 92% SOC the battery jumped to 100% and charging stopped. Car Scanner had the HVBSOC at 88.3% Same think happened yesterday at the EA fast charger. And when I drove the SOC dropped from 100% (dash SOC indicator) to 92% within a tenth of a mile. I assume this is abnormal and caused by the module Ford wants to replace.

I drove the truck for 104 miles averaging probably 73mph and returned home with 58% SOC (dash SOC indicator). Trip efficiency was 2.0 mi/kwh. The HVB Voltage module variation on Car Scanner showed .11 volts when I arrived home. It stayed below .09 for most of the drive. The navigation arrival SOC estimate was spot on.

Tomorrow or Sunday I'm going to take the truck to 10% SOC and then fast charge it. If the voltage variation doesn't go much higher than .11 I think I will trust it to make the trip. It is performing just fine.

I asked the Ford rep to schedule my module replacement for 7-24

Thank for all the great info.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

I assume this is abnormal and caused by the module Ford wants to replace.

You are correct, that is exactly what you are seeing and what is going to be addressed

 

[MickeyAO]

Thanks. I charged to 100% this afternoon. At 92% SOC the battery jumped to 100% and charging stopped. Car Scanner had the HVBSOC at 88.3% Same think happened yesterday at the EA fast charger. And when I drove the SOC dropped from 100% (dash SOC indicator) to 92% within a tenth of a mile. I assume this is abnormal and caused by the module Ford wants to replace.

I drove the truck for 104 miles averaging probably 73mph and returned home with 58% SOC (dash SOC indicator). Trip efficiency was 2.0 mi/kwh. The HVB Voltage module variation on Car Scanner showed .11 volts when I arrived home. It stayed below .09 for most of the drive. The navigation arrival SOC estimate was spot on.

Tomorrow or Sunday I'm going to take the truck to 10% SOC and then fast charge it. If the voltage variation doesn't go much higher than .11 I think I will trust it to make the trip. It is performing just fine.

I asked the Ford rep to schedule my module replacement for 7-24

Thank for all the great info.

Check what HvbSoh (State of Health) says. If you grab the dbc files from the Mach E forum, you should be able to see it. HvbSoc and HvbSocD will not match for the most part...you need to hit the one spot where they cross over for them to agree.

From my years of testing cells, modules, and packs, there is an elevated resistance somewhere in the pack that causes the jump from 92% to 100%, usually isolated to a module, or a cell imbalance.

 

[Hammick]

Check what HvbSoh (State of Health) says. If you grab the dbc files from the Mach E forum, you should be able to see it. HvbSoc and HvbSocD will not match for the most part...you need to hit the one spot where they cross over for them to agree.

From my years of testing cells, modules, and packs, there is an elevated resistance somewhere in the pack that causes the jump from 92% to 100%, usually isolated to a module, or a cell imbalance.

Thanks MickeyAO. Car Scanner shows 99% SOC as you can see in the attached photo. Not sure what dbc files are. Do the mach-e guys use those to see individual cell voltages?

I ran Car Scanner on our Ioniq 5 AWD and all 192 cells are shown as sensors and every one is at 3.68 volts.

So can a dealer see cell voltages through the OBD2 port or do they have to connect directly to the pack to see them?

Ioniq 5 scan: