Charging Rate Limited in the Heat?

[Maquis]

It reports 1kW because it rounds but it is delivering 1200 W (I believe that is the mobile chargers 120V limit).

That’s exactly my point. You can’t make the assumptions you’re making to back into the calculation you’re doing with any accuracy.

The truck is limited to 12A, which is 1400W, but that’s input to the onboard charge, not the battery.

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[TheBigBezo]

That’s exactly my point. You can’t make the assumptions you’re making to back into the calculation you’re doing with any accuracy.

The truck is limited to 12A, which is 1400W, but that’s input to the onboard charge, not the battery.

I can divide the total charge by time charging. As of this morning 23.6 kWh over 19 hours exactly which comes out to 1242W average.

I'm not sure what point you're getting at or how it's relevant to charging / battery conditions in the heat.

 

[Ford Motor Company]

Somewhat related, I've noticed in the extremely hot and humid temps being experienced in Texas right now, that my truck is always showing slightly warm on battery temps. Coolant level is slightly above the min. It's going to the dealership tomorrow and I plan on asking for the coolant to be topped off a bit, but I'm not sure if it's just my truck but if it's been left in the sun the battery temps will run hot when started. Ambient temps are 100F with high humidity, and it doesn't cool off much at night (80F).

Anyone seeing the same or is my cooling system degraded?

Hey! I can take a closer look into your battery/charging concerns if you'd like. Can you send us a direct message with your VIN and the dealership name/location? To send a private message, just click on our username and select "Start Conversation".

 

[Zprime29]

I can divide the total charge by time charging. As of this morning 23.6 kWh over 19 hours exactly which comes out to 1242W average.

I'm not sure what point you're getting at or how it's relevant to charging / battery conditions in the heat.

He was trying to point out that you can't just assume 1.2kW based on the reported charge rate. However, as you correctly point out, with a little math one can more accurately figure it out. I do the same with DCFC as well as compute avg rate over the whole charge. My last couple sessions, in 100F+ temps averaged under 100kW/hr for both a 150kW and a 350kW EA charging station. I was closer to 120kW/hr when I used the same stations in the spring, temps in the low 80's.

 

[RickLightning]

When it's plugged in, I click charging details and can see it's been charging for 10 hours at 1.2kW for 12.1kWh total.

I can divide the total charge by time charging. As of this morning 23.6 kWh over 19 hours exactly which comes out to 1242W average.

I'm not sure what point you're getting at or how it's relevant to charging / battery conditions in the heat.

Yes, you are seeing the car receive 1.2kW per hour, and yes, some is then lost by cooling the truck. 120v charging is very inefficient.

12.1/131 = 9.2%. Minus cooling, yup 8% charge.

 

[Maquis]

I can divide the total charge by time charging. As of this morning 23.6 kWh over 19 hours exactly which comes out to 1242W average.

I'm not sure what point you're getting at or how it's relevant to charging / battery conditions in the heat.

I was just trying to figure out how you came up with your numbers in post 26. Now that I’ve figured out your just making them up, I’m done.

 

[TheBigBezo]

I was just trying to figure out how you came up with your numbers in post 26. Now that I’ve figured out your just making them up, I’m done.

Thanks for the constructive input.

 

[Zprime29]

I was just trying to figure out how you came up with your numbers in post 26. Now that I’ve figured out your just making them up, I’m done.

I'm genuinely confused why you think he's making up these numbers? They are available on the charge screen while plugged in. I do the same thing to get a better idea on what my charge rate actually is. For instance, with the FCSP it will show 16kW for charge rate. However, when I compute the amount of energy added divided by the time it took to add it, I get closer to 14kW.

EDIT: Grant it, that will be an average. Part of the reduction is due to ramp up and it slowing as you get to higher SoC. I get that. My point is that the math is sound and the numbers for input are legitimate.

 

[Maquis]

I'm genuinely confused why you think he's making up these numbers? They are available on the charge screen while plugged in. I do the same thing to get a better idea on what my charge rate actually is. For instance, with the FCSP it will show 16kW for charge rate. However, when I compute the amount of energy added divided by the time it took to add it, I get closer to 14kW.

EDIT: Grant it, that will be an average. Part of the reduction is due to ramp up and it slowing as you get to higher SoC. I get that. My point is that the math is sound and the numbers for input are legitimate.

Well, to start with, you can’t take a number that varies over time that is looked at once, that is an integer, and arrive at a calculated number that has 2 decimal places.

 

[TheBigBezo]

My man, I think you're really missing the forest for the trees here. I made this thread to discuss heat's impacts on charging. As in the other thread, the truck will cool itself when plugged in due to high ambient temps. I made the post that I did to show, yah, using the smallest mobile charger, it takes a relatively sizeable chunk. Nothing more nothing less.

I'm sorry I didn't provide you a spelled out methodology section with assumptions and measures of testing but here's the thing, I'm not trying to publish a peer reviewed journal entry. I want to share something I observed, even if it seems obvious, because many of us are new to the Lightning, EVs, and it's our first summer.

What I would ask is that you leave this thread, you're not contributing in a meaningful way besides being rude and frankly a bit immature.

 

[Zprime29]

Well, to start with, you can’t take a number that varies over time that is looked at once, that is an integer, and arrive at a calculated number that has 2 decimal places.

There was clarification when you pointed it out and prior to claiming he's making things up:

I can divide the total charge by time charging. As of this morning 23.6 kWh over 19 hours exactly which comes out to 1242W average.

Even if total energy delivered is an integer, when divided by the time it took to deliver, it will provide a relatively accurate average rate over that time span. 26kW / 19hr = 1210W avg, or ~2.6% difference from above. That's, statistically speaking, close enough and a reasonable means of gauging energy rate and usage.

To the point of the post's topic, it would be interesting to see if that same loss occurs when charging in lower temps. I seem to recall having about a 12% loss when level 1 charging this past winter/spring. Temps where 40's-50's. I got the FCSP installed by the time temps where in the sweet spot so I haven't used the mobile charger since.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This was a late May charging event 5/20, consumed 14KWH of total energy and the FP charging pane (while still plugged in but charging stopped) shows 12.4 KWH added to the battery.

Emporia Vue 2 log shows the truck consumed 14 KWH of energy during this session and overnight as needed until I unplugged, battery warming & cooling was not likely to happen given the temp's noted below. By these numbers there was about 11.4% in AC->DC conversion losses.

The Connect Charge Station function on the Fordpass app shows 15.541 KWH
I'm puzzled why this shows much more, most of the time it and Emporia track very closely!
(Log posts the following Sunday after unplugging)

Likely the cooling system had minimal impact in late May as temperatures was reasonable in the evening.

I'm going to repeat this test Friday afternoon after driving the Lightning in high heat 95-100, let's see how much conversion loss and peripheral devices impact the loss calculation.

 

[Zprime29]

The Emporia Vue system is on my short list of things to purchase. Really like what you and others have shown from it.

 

[TheBigBezo]

I wish I had a charger that provided me more info than just the mobile charger. I left the truck on the charger for 19.5 hours yesterday. Fordpass reported 24.1kWh added. However, Fordpass also reports that the SoC only increased by 12% (68-80%). It's programmed to go til 90% so it didn't terminate early. My rough math says that 24.1kWh should make up 18.4% SoC assuming ER battery size of 131 (16.9% using true 143kWh). This comes out to a whopping 34.8% difference between the theoretical SoC gain (Fordpass reported kWh) and actual SoC from App/Truck.

The high yesterday was 101F with 50% humidity and a low of 77F overnight. I don't have an OBD scanner to actually see hard numbers but it is certainly interesting. I can also hear the truck's fans running periodically too.

Granted, Fordpass could be reporting weird KWh values. I also don't know where that number comes from, before the AC to DC onboard charger, after, so on. I unplugged at 9 am so the truck was experiencing mostly temps 90-101 until about 4am when it cooled below 80F.

 

[Maquis]

There was clarification when you pointed it out and prior to claiming he's making things up:

Yeah, I was being glib. Apologies to all.

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